Government Health Care – Is It Right?
Government health care – a sensible solution or a bitter pill to swallow?
Today on Truthtalk Live Stu Epperson, Jr. welcomes Captain Jim Kinney to talk about the issue and to take your calls at (866) 34-TRUTH.
Capt. Kinney spent 26 years in the Navy, initially flying as Mission Commander in reconnaissance aircraft launching from aircraft carriers. He ultimately had three commands and served a tour on the Joint Chiefs of Staff. While serving as the Director of Navy Recruiting and Retention Policy and in Zone for Admiral, he retired to take a position as Vice President of a non-profit organization in Atlanta. Serving 10 years, he turned a struggling operation around by automating their support systems and quadrupling their annual business.
After serving nearly 4 years on staff at one of the largest churches in America, he left to help Gov. Mike Huckabee’s presidential campaign. When his service to the campaign was completed, he launched the Inspire & Ignite consulting company
Watch Stu Live ..click the TV icon below
To watch and post right click your mouse and click open in new tab/window!
154 Comments on “Government Health Care – Is It Right?”
Has anyone bothered to check the status of the US dollar? King dollar is dead, long live the King. Who is the new king? Gold as it is re-emerging.
The US government will have no problems writing everyone checks. No problem what-so-ever. They will print as much money as they need to cover whatever expenses they have.
My God, and this is a pray not using the Lord’s name in vain, don’t these people see what is happening. It’s not just the Democrats and it’s not just the Republicans!!! It is the Federal Reserve System which allows that organization to print money at will.
What do you think will happen to healthcare costs…..all costs for that matter…..as the US dollar continues its slide into oblivion? Oh yeh, we can pass all sorts of laws including Free Market solutions, but if the currency is debauched, prices will soar. I am at a loss. Today the US dollar once again broke below 76 and closed at 75.76. The annual low is 74.91. When that goes, the US dollar will have one more area of support between 72 – 74. Once that gives way, it will plunge into the 60s on the USDX.
Churches had better get ready to bring the missionaries home as living overseas is about to get very very expensive……make that living here in the US too.
Apparently this is issue is dead. No one seems interested and that is fine with me. I will exit the blog for now, and leave all of you to persue the more significant issues of the day. Unless economic issues come up again, I will leave until the new year. I will continue to listen to TTL, at least through the Thanksgiving Holiday.
I wish everyone well and do really hope I am wrong in ALL OF MY PREDICTIONS, however so far Gold is confirming everything I have said thus far. FYI, King Gold hit $1099 yesterday, $1 from my target resistence price of $1100. Round numbers always provide resistence. Gold will break through $1100, and head up towards my target price of $1200 – $1300. I’ve told all the folks that gold’s strength is not a time for us to high five each other as such a price in gold is a clear and present warning that inflation is coming…..coming with a vengence within the next 2 to 5 years. My time span includes the very high probability that the US will experience hyperinflation, and an eventual currency exchange. This is going to be a very cold hard winter for the US dollar.
Those that can work, get jobs or open businesses and work. Those that can’t work join the military and mooch of my hard earned and ill-spent tax dollars. Someone should remind Jim Kinney that the VA is government healthcare. So are Medicare and Medicaid. If we don’t want the government to provide healthcare I suggest we begin by first canceling Jim Kinney’s VA benefits. What’s that you say Captain Jim? You earned those benefits? And the people with real jobs, the productive members of society haven’t the right to government-sponsored healthcare? How do you figure?
What Jim Kinney is doing is parroting the lies and propaganda spewed by the organization that now controls the Republican Party, which would be Fox News. 72% of self-identified FOX News viewers believe the health-care plan will give coverage to illegal immigrants, 79% of them say it will lead to a government takeover, 69% think that it will use taxpayer dollars to pay for abortions, and 75% believe that it will allow the government to make decisions about when to stop providing care for the elderly. None of this is true of course. Jim Kinney worked for Mike (I don’t believe in evolution) Huckabuck’s presidential campaign. The Huckster has his own TV show right on the Fox (fair and balanced) network. Connect the dots.
Gurgus, I am a Christian and am suppose to discuss these things with gentleness and with respect. In your case all I can say, is you are a ??????…..no offense to morons.
I would not expect anyone with your intellect, being able to discuss a subject as simple as economics. Apparently you do not understand the basic principle of supply and demand. This principle pertains to all products and services in an economy including the currency. The more you have of a product or service that is declining in demand, the lower its value. Can you understand this principle? HMMMMM can you? I doubt it as it would tax your puny mind to the point of exhaustion.
According to the current administration, the US will be running multi-TRILLION dollar deficits for the next decade. Who pray tell is going to loan us the money? Why would China, Japan, or Brazil use the savings of their nation to support our spending? HMMMMM
You message was pure venom, and the sign of a person that is intellectually bankrupt.
One final note. You may have convinced me to accept evolutionary theory. I think we have discovered the Missing Link……no offense to any Missing Links.
Trust me on this, Gurgus. If you are being insulted by Mike, chances are you are on to something.
Excerpts from keynote speaker at Georgetown University’s Gaston Hall on Tuesday: His All Holiness Bartholomew I, Ecumenical Patriarch of the Orthodox Christian World,
“How many people know that the modern hospital originated in the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as the Byzantine Empire? … [The first hospitals in modern-day Turkey] were public institutions free of charge, and were created for the public good … Every member of society, from the greatest to the least, deserves the best quality care available at that time. As the United States debates the best way to provide health care for its citizens, we hope and pray that the Byzantine orthodox approach provides a model worthy of emulation.”
“We must challenge ourselves to align our personal and spiritual attitudes with public policy … If human beings treated one another’s personal property the way they sometimes treat the environment, we would view that behavior as antisocial. We would impose the judicial measures necessary to restore wrongly appropriated personal possessions. It is therefore appropriate for us to seek ethical and even legal recourse where possible in matters of ecological crimes.”
From “Robed Revolutionary: Thoughts on Progressivism from the Ultimate ‘Conservative’” courtesy of http://blog.sojo.net/2009/11/05/robed-revolutionary-thoughts-on-progressivism-from-the-ultimate-conservative/
Mike,
People are receiving health care that cannot pay for it. Hospitals cannot turn away people based on the fact that they have no money and no insurance. Insurance companies routinely cancel people when they get a catastrophic illness or become chronically ill. They also refuse to insure these people should they already be ill. Right now the cost of this gets passed on to people like you and people like me. The healthcare bill will bring an end to that. How this gets paid for is beside the point. How does anything get paid for? I suggest we end these two illegal incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq, which would save us billions of dollars a month, at least enough to insure people who otherwise cannot pay for health insurance or can but are refused insurance by the greedy and unethical insurance companies. I suggest we legalize marijuana and tax the producers, the sellers and the users. How about we revoke the tax exemptions given to religious institutions? There, I’ve just eliminated the national debt. All we have to do is WANT to pay our bills and we can. Our politicians would just rather live on credit. They can do more for us and quicker. Then we’ll re-elect them. Bless their pointed little heads.
When our nation was founded it was already heavily in debt. Politicians always gamble that the economy will grow at a rate that will increase tax revenues enough to pay the national debt. Eventually. For thousands of years this system has worked. Most of the time anyway. Don’t worry about it. As a Christian you should be more worried about poor people not receiving preventive care or any medical care at all unless it’s an emergency or they’ve come down with something that could have been easily detected and dealt with in a routine examination but is now beyond an easy cure or any cure at all. That’s what is happening. Poor people are not receiving proper medical attention until it’s too late, which not acceptable to people like me and too expensive which is unacceptable to people like you. So both of us have good reasons to support the new health care legislation.
Gurgus: “I suggest we end these two illegal incursions into Afghanistan and Iraq, which would save us billions of dollars a month, at least enough to insure people who otherwise cannot pay for health insurance or can but are refused insurance by the greedy and unethical insurance companies. I suggest we legalize marijuana and tax the producers, the sellers and the users. How about we revoke the tax exemptions given to religious institutions?”
FIRST OF ALL, NO ONE HAS SAID, ESPECIALLY ME, THAT HEALTH CARE DOES NOT NEED REFORM……IT DOES. Reforming it by legislation that is 1990 pages long is not the answer just like the Titanic hitting another iceberg was not the answer to its predicament. A for your suggestions regarding Iraq and Afghanistan, I agree, furthermore we should bring all our troops home. As for marijuana and other drugs, I will admit that legalizing them and spending money on treatment as opposed to enforcement is the answer.
Now your solutions for solving the national debt tell one of three things. 1. You either do not know the size of the national debt. 2. You do not know the nations income. 3. You are stupid.
I will assume that your problem lies with numbers 1 and 2.
The current debt is 12 Trillion with an additional 1.5 to 2+ trillion added on every year (this is the deficit) for the next decade. So we will add an additional $10 to $15 TRILLION to our national debt, if interest rates remain low during this time, if we get out of this depression / recession soon and do not go into recession over the next 10 years. If all those things happen then interest on the debt will be $250 billion per year by 2020.
But that is not the worst of it. No, no, no. Unfunded liabilities of the US now exceed $60 trillion. When that is added to the debt, the numbers are so large that few if any can even comprehend them. The bottom line is the US is broke, and if we continue to print money at the rate we are now printing it, the US dollar will become worthless. Do you understand the implications of a currency that is debauched. If you don’t may I suggest you do a bit of research on modern day Zimbabwe or what happened to people during the first 5 years of the Weimar Republic.
The best way to reform health care is through appropriate government regulation and the free market, NOT BY A PUBLIC OPTION or any other scheme hatched by government. I agree that we should help the poor, I grew up poor. But you don’t help the poor by destroying the economy and creating run-away inflation. That will only guarantee their and most everyone’s misery.
As for Kash, she is a Useful Idiot that has now resorted to sniping. Notice that she did not address my question in another thread. She comes across as an expert but her words betray her lack of understanding on the issue of economics. All she can do is repeat the horse hockey of the Statists.
Mike,
You are worried that if we continue to print money at the rate we are now printing it, the US dollar will become worthless. Not so. In 1992 Dr. Jacques S Jaikaran pointed out in his book “Debt Virus” that the government should just print enough money to pay the national debt. Then to avoid inflation simultaneously restrict the individual bank’s fractional reserve power to inflate this money through lending by increasing their reserve requirement in proportion with this new money. This is the percentage of bank deposits that cannot be used for credit. This would erase the national debt and maintain the credit and money supply. Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul are among politicians who support this idea. As a self-proclaimed expert on economics I find it interesting you seem unaware of this obvious solution to the problem of the national debt and unable to offer any solutions of your own. I’m not sure why you think the free-market should be able to solve the problems in the healthcare industry that it is directly responsible for causing. A public option isn’t going to destroy the economy any more than Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid or any other government program has even though the do-nothing conservative politicians in this country warned us they surely would each and every time.
Gurgus: “You are worried that if we continue to print money at the rate we are now printing it, the US dollar will become worthless. Not so. In 1992 Dr. Jacques S Jaikaran pointed out in his book “Debt Virus” that the government should just print enough money to pay the national debt.”
The government is prohibited from printing money as the Constitution establishes gold and silver as money. When I say print, I am using a shortened version of the process whereby the government prints up bonds (debt) and the Fed buys it. This is called monetizing the debt.
Besides even if the government were able to ‘just print” away the debt, such an obvious decision would eventually erode confidence, which is the only pillar upon fiat money rests.
Finally, who holds the debt and what will they do with the money? Holders of the debt are the American people, either directly through bonds or indirectly through bond funds and foreigners (today that means China and Japan.) So what do you think these good folks would do with their dollars once their bonds were re-purchased? What do you think the world would do the next time the US needed cash, which would be almost immediately, and issued more bonds?
Like Communism, which sound like heaven on earth on paper, but is really a version of hell, the ideal proposal established by the good Dr. would not work in reality. The only way it could possibly work would be for there be a Constitutional ammendment prohibiting government from going into debt while printing away the old debt.
Bottomline is this…..now pay attention as what I am about to tell you has been verified by the Federal Reserve itself, our money comes into existence through debt. If all debt were paid off we would be without money under our current system.
“Robert H. Hemphill, Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta in the Great Depression, wrote in 1934:
We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon.6″
Our Federal Reserve was modeled from the BOE. Here is a good one from those folks:
“Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s. He declared in an address at the University of Texas in 1927:
The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit. ”
Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, and many others had much to say about a Central Bank. In the 20th Century, numerous leaders opposed the creation of another national bank, including Charles Lindbergh Sr. before Congress.
“When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.
Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, Putting It Simply (1984)
Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities. Intrinsically, a dollar bill is just a piece of paper, deposits merely book entries. Coins do have some intrinsic value as metal, but generally far less than their face value.
Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, Modern Money Mechanics (1975) ”
WANT MORE? THIS ONE IS PROPHETIC:
“The powers vested in the Federal Reserve Board seem to me highly dangerous especially when there is political control of the Board. I should be sorry to hold stock in a bank subject to such dominations. The [Federal Reserve] bill as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the currency.… I do not like to think that any law can be passed that will make it possible to submerge the gold standard in a flood of irredeemable paper currency.
Henry Cabot Lodge Sr., 1913
“…the increase in the assets of the Federal Reserve banks from 143 million dollars in 1913 to 45 billion dollars in 1949 went directly to the private stockholders of the banks.
Eustace Mullins, The Federal Reserve Conspiracy (1954) ”
I am not against any government program so long as it is a wish of the American people through their representatives and so long as it is PAID FOR with honest money. Thus far in the whole history of humanity, the only system of honest money that has survived the test of time and brings on prosperity and promotes freedom (in representatives democracies) for the people is gold and silver. The end result of taking away honest money and substuting it with paper has always been MISERY for the people. But the statist would not have you believe in gold and silver for if you did it would take away their power. In a representative democracy, the politicians promise the people all sorts of goodies….a utopia, because their programs can be funded with the funny money….money printed out of nothing. Alan Greenspan, Mr. Bubbles himself, never repudiated what he wrote in his 1966 paper, Gold and Economic Freedom. It is not a long paper and you can look it up. I will give you the last few sentences of what he wrote. See if you can see the current crisis in light of what he wrote:
“The holder of a government bond or of a bank deposit created by paper reserves believes that he has a valid claim on a real asset. But the fact is that there are now more claims outstanding than real assets. The law of supply and demand is not to be conned. As the supply of money (of claims) increases relative to the supply of tangible assets in the economy, prices must eventually rise. Thus the earnings saved by the productive members of the society lose value in terms of goods. When the economy’s books are finally balanced, one finds that this loss in value represents the goods purchased by the government for welfare or other purposes with the money proceeds of the government bonds financed by bank credit expansion.
In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists’ tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists’ antagonism toward the gold standard.
”
When one realizes how the system works one can easily see how we got into the financial mess we are in. A mess that will only be resolved when America returns to honest money, but a mess that will only be cleaned up with much work and restructuring of government. Doing more of the same will only make matters worse down the road and we are already pretty much down the road.
You seem to be an intellegent person. I apologize for suggesting…..calling you a moron. Kash has frustrated me to no end as she is a devout statist. Please do not give your blind loyalty to any political party. I left the Republican party during the Bush Administration and have not given them a penny in years. I came to understand the game Washington plays with the citizens, who are the true strength of this great nation. The Republicans attack the Democrats and the Democrats the Republicans, thus they seem like bitter enemies. But the truth is they both represent a system that is corrupt by its very nature. For example the Republicans are accusing Obama of doubling the debt in the course of his administration, yet Bush started with a national debt of $5 trillion and left office with a debt of nearly $11 trillion. The statists are in both parties and both political parties use the Fed to achieve specific goals. But we have finally reached the limits of our spending and debt (debasing the money) will bring the American Empire down, just as it brought down the Roman Empire. Personally, I don’t see this as a bad thing. Maybe we can get back to honest money; which means some sort of Gold Certificate Ratio, updated and modernized. But first the Fed must be brought under control and that control begins with a FULL AUDIT.
Kash, the best bumper sticker salesperson on the planet quotes this, “How many people know that the modern hospital originated in the Eastern Roman Empire, also known as the Byzantine Empire? … [The first hospitals in modern-day Turkey] were public institutions free of charge, and were created for the public good … Every member of society, from the greatest to the least, deserves the best quality care available at that time.
Very nice kash and I am sure it fits perfectly with your Polyanna world of “Let’s all share and be nice.” In your world there is no greed, theft, fraud, immoral individuals (not relating morality to social behavior but to ethics), etc. Woman, deal with reality not the world you have created in your own mind. You are the classic liberal, if sounds good it must be good regardless of the outcome.
NOW FOR THE QUESTION? Who would pay? Nothing is FREE got that NOTHING IS FREE….someone has to pay for it. Given the Billions of dollars wasted in Medicare Fraud each and every year, guess what a national health care system that involves Trillions will do for the fraudsters. And while we are at it you can tax the rich all you want even to 100% of their income, but at some point the rich will just pack their bags, as they are now doing, and leave. Contrary to popular belief the RICH are not those that sit around sipping mojitos on their luxury yachts, all of which was inherted and never worked for. Read the book, The Millionaire Next Door. 80% of the Rich came from the lower class and work 70 to 80 hours per week in their businesses. Tax them to death and you destroy the very fabric of our society. They are already leaving which is why the government has imposed controls over an individuals Right to take his / her property with them, which is exactly what despotic communist / fascist government do.
I am not one to say, “I told you so,” but I just love to say, “I told you so.” In a recent series of messages, in the Will the World End in 2012, I had a brief debate with kash, which she dropped out of but seems to have resumed on another thread. She does not want to deal with any proof that I might be right and RIGHT I have been and will continue to be as this financial / economic crisis unfolds. Let me repeat one of my messages from a previous topic.
“kash: “Who is right? Time will tell. But Mike will dismiss it a theoretical clap trap.”
The proof is in the PUDDIN and so far I have been batting 1000. Time has TOLD, I’m right those that said the economy was going to be alright and unemployment would not exceed 8.1% have been wrong….WRONG WRONG WRONG. And these are the folks that you place your trust in. I think it was someone in the Obama administration that said unemployment would not exceed 8.1%. THE GOVERNMENT EXPERTS, OBAMA HIMSELF, THE ONES YOU HAVE ALL YOUR FAITH IN WERE AND ARE …..get ready kash…….WRONG WRONG WRONG and I, Mike was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT. It kills you doesn’t it. I’m not making anything it up it is all right there. My predictions long before they happened; Took place just as I said they would. For you to deny it is for you to sound just like Bernie.
”
kash, you are beginning to sound an awful like like Bernie. He was was good at quoting the sources he preferred that proved his point and while he was at it he continually denied reality or any evidence that did not fit his opinions or Worldview. Evidence meant nothing to him, no matter how convincing. I made a series of prediction long before the events took place and every single one has either come true or are unfolding just as I said they would.
kash, here are some more predictions.
Short term the US dollar will rally and the stock market will pull back. The absolute low for the S&P 500 will be somewhere in the low 900s to 950. I am telling my folks that raised a bit of cash recently with the S&P 500 near 1100 to get ready to reallocate. The final leg of this cyclical bull is about to begin with a stock market pullback. I suspect that the cyclical bull will run out of gas by the middle of next year. By then my people will have avoided the horrific crash into March 2009 by moving 75% to a cash position during 2008, and then reallocating that cash to stocks early in March to catch the next wave up, then taking 10% off the table in October, and now getting ready to get back on board.
How does that square with your philosophical Michelle, who just quotes the Wall Street montra to keep investors fully invested so they can sell shares to them? In a SECULAR BEAR, the only way to make money is to TRADE THE MARKET. Buy and hold is not a winning strategy. BUY AND HOLD WORKS IN A SECULAR BULL MARKET, AND THE SECULAR BULL IS NOW RUNNING IN THE NATURAL RESOURCE COMPLEX.
Now back to my predictive talents given to me by God. I credit Him with providing me with a logical mind that always attempts to analyze data to predict trends and allows me to recognize mistakes and correct them. I am not….repeat NOT, the type of person that sticks to any idea with blind faith. When the evidence tells me I am wrong, I change my opinions and points of view as well as my behavior. I am what one would call an original thinker in that I sift through the garbage and keep only the kernals of truth. Try it, it is very refreshing, and most of all liberating.
Now here is another cut and paste from the “World Ending in 2012″ series:
”
Kash, and MattF, I do not deal in hypothethicals or the philosophical, rather I am practical in my observations, fact analysis, and in formulating my opinions. Last Feb. I made a series of predictions which you can read through in Mike’s message #8 at http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/01/27/fools-gold-global-economics-from-a-biblical-worldview/#comments In that message I wrote the following:
“Time has run out. 2009 will see more unemployment, possibly has high as 10% by government phony figures, or 20% by reality based statistics. There is an energy crisis building in addition to the economic woes we are experiencing. We saw the opening round the past few years as gasoline and heating oil prices soared and there were some shortages whenever a hurricane entered the Gulf. The last IEA report stated that the depletion rate of the major oil fields is between 6.7% and 9.2%. This means that we must find 2 Saudi Arabias worth of oil within the next 7 years to replace just what we are losing.
These are the two Category 5 storms we face; a global energy and a global financial crisis that will lead to inflationary problems in most nations. Those that prepare will do well. Those that don’t will be crushed in the tsunami these crises create. ”
No one at the time was predicting 10% unemployment. Most said unemployment would peak at 8.1%. U6 is now over 17% and I suspect it will hit at least 18% by year end. U6 is a more accurate measure of real unemployment as it includes people who want full time but can only get part time and those that have given up looking and have been dropped from the roles.
Someone by the name of Mike S. suggested buying real estate because “they aren’t making any more of it.” Here was my repsonse: “Mike S. I would only buy land in countries that are growing their economies. It is a myth that real estate prices always go up. In real terms, real estate is dead for many years. Farmland will appreciate more so than houses in the suburbs because you can grow food on good land. ” Notice that I said real estate is dead for many years. I have stated over and over that real estate price will likely not bottom until 2012 and then stay down for years to come. That will not be the case with farmland, which I think will appreciate as food prices begin to rise.
Kash, you wrote the following: “I have a retirement fund that is quite varied. It is a bit smaller now than it was three years ago, but I have a while until I retire. I own my own business and have assets in many areas: land, timber, farming, commercial property, to name a few. My husband and I pay as we go and have no debt. Michelle Singletary is my heroine when it comes to financial matters.”
Now I’ve read some of Michelle’s commentaries and analysis but I find nothing very useful about what she says. It is mostly theoritical blather and interviews with the tradtional Wall Street wags. I don’t think she has ever recommended gold, commodities, or emerging markets. She has not from what I can tell addressed the falling dollar and its future given the vast deficits the US will face over the next decade. She has not even stated the fact that we are in a Secular Bear market in stocks that is likely to last decades. The Father of all Bears started in 2000 with the DOW peaking at 11,500. I know, the DOW peaked in Oct. 2007 at 14,200, but that peak was in nominal terms only. In real terms (adjusted for inflation) the DOW was lower in 2007 than it was in 2000.
While she does offer some good basic common sense suggestions, her views are nothing to write home about. At least she is not hostile to gold as Dave Ramsey has been the past 9 years. Most of what Michelle writes about can be found in Larry Burkett’s work.
In a recent piece Michelle addressed the rising cost of a college education. I was disappointed however when she did not address the reason why college costs have skyrocketed which is the direct result of ……are you ready for this……GOVERNMENT BENEVOLENCE. Yep, government is the main reason, if one understands how markets work, where their interference has led to skyrocketing costs and students graduating with massive debt. Something Michelle should be interested in. I can prove my assertion but I doubt you would be interested being the statist that your are.”
GUESS WHAT, U-3 UNEMPLOYMENT TODAY STANDS AT 10.2%. My guess is that U-6, a broader measure is closer to 18%. Except for government juggling of the statistics, and they have been manipulated to the point of being complete fabrications, the US unemployment is and has been at DEPRESSION LEVELS.
One final point. Keynesian economics, which involves government intervention, works at first as fiscal and monetary stimulus have positive impacts on the economy, but in the later stages it stops working. Government control and run economies have proven NOT TO WORK. The Soviets tried it and they failed. China tried it during Mao’s years at the helm and it failed. China today is anything but Communist in its economic system. Castro has tried it and Cuba is an economic disaster. Wherever government strays away from the very few things it does well, the end result is a complete and UTTER MESS. History has proven this, and yet there are still some out there that believe that our politicians….our people will finally get it right. Anyone want to bet on it? Those of you that support the state as the solution or as kash, live in a Polyanna world were everyone is kind and gentle and no one seeks power or unearned weath, are supporting the very system that will enslave you, your children, and your grandchildren while enriching and empowering a handful of individuals.
There are ways to fix the healthcare system without government being DIRECTLY INVOLVED. It was government involvement in the first place that has led to this health care crisis and caused prices to soar.
“80% of the Rich came from the lower class and work 70 to 80 hours per week in their businesses.” That makes no sense. How can you simultaneously be rich and lower class? Really, Mike. You are arguing yourself into all sorts of contradictions.
“Very nice kash and I am sure it fits perfectly with your Polyanna world of “Let’s all share and be nice.” ” Well, I would describe it as my Biblical worldview of “lets all share and be nice.” And what, exactly, is wrong with that?
“Notice that she did not address my question in another thread. ” I have addressed all your questions, you just dismiss my opinions as wrong. And as for your ‘predictions’ that are coming true, the unemployment numbers of 10% were being suggested by Obama officials among others back in the spring. Nothing that has happened so far hasn’t been predicted by the more bearish commentators on NPRs marketplace. Now if the dollar completely crashes and we have deflation, then you can feel like a fortune teller.
Kash: Now if the dollar completely crashes and we have deflation, then you can feel like a fortune teller.
Since I don’t have much choice but to sit in place and wait until 2012 to see if his 40-year deadline holds any weight, I’m kind of interested to see what happens.
Thanks for hanging in there, Kash. I know very little about economics, but watching the two of you go at it and chasing down the references each has used to buttress his or her stance has been very educational. Watching you wield your arguments with the power of a bulldozer and the precision of a scalpel is a thing of beauty and grace. Even though I can’t contribute very much to the debate from an informational standpoint, it’s stunning just to watch you work, and I want to throw in some emotional support (for whatever little it’s worth); even though I don’t agree with you in every detail, it’s strangely heartening to see your courage and conviction.
Thanks, MattF. THe thing is that its not Mike’s economic faith in gold that bothers me so much as the way he uses it as a reason not to support what I believe are necessary governmental safety nets such as welfare and a health care system that offers at least some level of basic care for everyone. To me, this is what a government that claims allegiance to Christian values should do, no matter the cost. I don’t understand why one necessarily precludes the other, yet whenever the conversation is about governmental policy MIke turns it back to “End the Fed. Back to the Gold Standard.”
kash: ““80% of the Rich came from the lower class and work 70 to 80 hours per week in their businesses.” That makes no sense. How can you simultaneously be rich and lower class? Really, Mike. You are arguing yourself into all sorts of contradictions.” You can’t be this stupid. It is just not possible which leaves me to the conclusion that you are either dense or deliberately twist whatever someone says to fit whatever stupid issue you want to address. You know full well what I meant. I meant my statement that 80% of the rich work their buns off to be rich, and many if not most of those rise up out of the lower to middleclass. This is addressed in the book, “The Millionaire Next Door.”
kash, “Well, I would describe it as my Biblical worldview of “lets all share and be nice.” And what, exactly, is wrong with that?”
Everything especially the fact that it is NOT Biblical. The Bible is clear, Man’s heart is wicked, who can know it? Unless you have discovered the perfect model for selecting leaders that have no personal ambition your worldview is not workable.
Let’s all play nice will never work so long as the Second Coming is still in the future. Are you this mindless? Really, you make Bernie sound like a total rational human being with no ax to grind.
kash, how can you lie with a straight face. You stated, ” And as for your ‘predictions’ that are coming true, the unemployment numbers of 10% were being suggested by Obama officials among others back in the spring.”
While the Obama people were stating such predictions, I made mine at the end of January on the Fools Gold thread. Back then the Obama people were reassuring us that if the stimulus package passed unemployment would not exceed 8% if it did not pass we would see 8.1%+. Well it passed and here we are at 10.2% unemployment. I’ve been predicting a hyperinflationary depression for years. Stu knows it and I think you do to. The depression is here and hyperinflation is within 2 to 3 years of the NEW AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.
kash: ” Now if the dollar completely crashes and we have deflation, then you can feel like a fortune teller.”
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you really are this stupid. If a currency collapses it loses value therefore it takes more of the currency to make any purchase. A collapsing currency does not bring on deflation it brings on hyperinflation. In its final dying breath, a substitute is found and that substitute currency, which is almost always tied to precious metals, brings down prices. Eventually the dead fiat currency is swept away into the gutters as it has finally become totally worthless.
Usually, but not always, government intervenes and establishes a new currency at a given exchange rate. In Post WW I Germany that exchange rate in 1924 was 1Trillion old Marks for 1 New Rettenmark.
As for you MattF, I can see why you support kash like a husband defending a wife. “Even though I can’t contribute very much to the debate from an informational standpoint, it’s stunning just to watch you work, and I want to throw in some emotional support (for whatever little it’s worth); even though I don’t agree with you in every detail, it’s strangely heartening to see your courage and conviction.” The two of you are of like minds. Now go back and read my first two sentences.
Everyone should at least read or listen to John Williams of Shadow Government Statistics. In summary the numbers just released by government reformulated to what is really happening (the old formulas of measuring the economy decades ago):
Annual Payroll Loss Rivals End of World War II Production Shutdown
- Unemployment Jumps to 10.2% (22.1% SGS)
- Systemic Liquidity Problems Still Intensifying
- Fed Continues to Explode Monetary Base”
Kash and MattF, I urge you to give the government a helping hand by buying Bonds. Any money you have left should be placed in a secure FDIC insured account at your local bank. Put your money where you mouth is, since you support our current system and believe the US dollar is good to go well into the future.
Liberals such as yourselves will be doing your duty in supporting the new government spending when you buy bonds. Don’t worry about inflation since kash has predicted deflation in a currency collapse. I think I read that in a Bizzaro World Econ. 101 book……I’m sure of it.
Any risk capital you have should also go into the Financial stocks since they were stellar performers over the past few decades, and since the economy is recovering I am sure all investments in the retail sector will do very well. After all with the US economy recovering, any sector that is 70% of that economy should do well and the US is 70% consumption. Finally real estate prices have surely bottomed so there are some very good bargains out there. Why not pick up a few properties as investments.
Above all else do not put any money in nasty oil, foul natural gas, deadly uranium, worthless gold and silver, risky emerging markets, food related companies since all food should be free to everyone, or foreign bonds which everyone knows are the riskiest investments.
Kash, I am sure Michelle whatever would smile at a portfolio in US bonds, retail stocks, US real estate, and FDIC insured bank deposits. Go for it girl go for it.
“The Bible is clear, Man’s heart is wicked, who can know it?” So, we’re still supposed to share and play nice. The Bible is just as clear about that.
Mike, you should know that as a Keynesian, I don’t fear inflation but deflation. Deflation is what the real problem was behind the Great Depression, and Japan’s long recession. INflation is nothing to worry about as long as everything is rising together – costs, wages, etc. You oversimplify as always.
“Don’t worry about inflation since kash has predicted deflation in a currency collapse. ” I am not predicting anything. That is your God given talent, not mine.
And it is deflation that can cause a currency collapse which THEN causes hyperinflation. That is what happened in the Weimar Republic you love to compare us to.
Polyanna Kash: “So, we’re still supposed to share and play nice. The Bible is just as clear about that.”
I guess rape, murder, child abuse, fraud, theft, etc. are all just recent in society. If only we could return to that age when we all played nice. When was that?
Kash: “Mike, you should know that as a Keynesian, I don’t fear inflation but deflation. Deflation is what the real problem was behind the Great Depression, and Japan’s long recession. INflation is nothing to worry about as long as everything is rising together – costs, wages, etc. You oversimplify as always.
”
UH??? What did she say???? NO, NO, NO, this is not possible. Just when I thought no one human being could be this ignorant…..notice that I am refraining from the word stupid as that has such a negative connotation….Kash surprises me. This time you’ve done it kash, I am speechless.
Mike, deflation is what causes a loss of confidence in a currency that then leads to over printing and then hyper-inflation. You should know this. Deflation is more often what precededs hyper-inflation than just regular run of the mill, control it by raising interest rates inflation.
As far as my Polyana views: No, Mike, we haven’t gotten to the Kingdom of God yet but that is no excuse not to live it every day in our own lives.
kash: “And it is deflation that can cause a currency collapse which THEN causes hyperinflation. That is what happened in the Weimar Republic you love to compare us to.”
Now please show me where you see any deflation in the following:
The loss of production in the Ruhr caused a fall in production elsewhere and unemployment rose from 2% to 23%.Prices rose out of control as tax revenues collapsed and the government financed its activities through the printing of money. By November prices were a billion times their pre-war levels.
The hyper inflation of this period can be seen from the following table:
Year Month Marks needed to buy
one US dollar
1919 April 12
December 47
1921 November 263
1922 July 493
August 1,000
October 3,000
December 7,000
1923 January 17,000
April 24,000
July 353,000
August 4,621,000
September 98,860,000
October 25,260,000,000
November 2,193,600,000,000
December 4,200,000,000,000
By 1924 the German government revalued the currency by introducing the Retten Mark at an exchange rate of 1 Trillion old marks for 1 new one.
This portion finishes with the following statement, “The rise in prices hit the middle classes and those on fixed income very hard. Many who had saved money found that their saving were worthless.”
http://www.historyhome.co.uk/europe/weimar.htm#turmoil
Sounds incredibly familiar doesn’t it. Deficit spending, money printing, and loss of production. For the Germans it was the result of having lost the war. For America the loss of production was due to unreasonable government regulations, unions breaking industry, and one of the highest corporate tax rates in the industrialized world. Over the past 30 years we went from a creditor nation to the greatest debtor nation the world has ever seen.
Kash, I have repeatedly mentioned Weimar 1919 to 1924 so there could be no mistake from Weimar post 1924. The US structurally resembles the first 5…..NOTICE I SAID FIVE, CINCO, 5 YEARS OF THE NEW REPUBLIC, not the remaining 6 which saw some prosperity but collapsed into chaos by the early 1930s.
Now back to my original question, where is the deflation you spoke of? You say you answer all my questions but you never addressed the question of the 4 types of markets. I had to provide the answer for you.
As for my predictions, you know full well that I told Bernie that gold would bottom in June, the June swoon, and then begin a climb higher. It did just that after establishing what is known as a double bottom in early July. So technically I was off a week or so in my timing…big deal but I was right.
Now as to your comment that others were predicting the same things as I was. Name these others? Who are they? I want to see proof.
kash:”Mike, deflation is what causes a loss of confidence in a currency that then leads to over printing and then hyper-inflation. You should know this. Deflation is more often what precededs hyper-inflation than just regular run of the mill, control it by raising interest rates inflation.”
Let me give you a piece of advice, stop writing these responses they are ludicrous. First of all you do not even know what inflation and deflation are. Second of all you have it backwards. It is government’s attempt to prevent deflation that leads to inflation. How can loss of confidence in a currency bring about lower prices, which most say is deflation, which it isn’t.
You sound silly, dumb, stupid, without any knowledge what-so-ever, laughable, rediculous, insane….someone help me I’m running out of adverbs. I do not mean to be cruel but I really do not know how to respond to the absolutely insane statement you just made. You just blew yourself out of the water.
As an example of deflation leading to hyperinflation: In 1920, Germany experienced a deflationary collapse, with the average citizen finding it harder and harder to get enough money for necessities. Banks, short of money, could not honor checks, and businesses were strapped for cash to buy materials and meet payroll. Fearing a collapse that would throw millions of workers out on the street, the German government desperately printed money in an attempt to re-inflate the economy. During this period, despite the government’s money printing, the mark actually gained in value against foreign currencies, so that prices of imported goods fell by some 50%.
Eventually, as a result of the money supply’s rapid expansion, the nation’s massive foreign debt, and the shrinking economy, German citizens lost all confidence in their currency, and the Weimar Republic experienced one of the worst cases of hyperinflation in modern economic history. Billions of hoarded marks came out of hiding and entered the marketplace. We do not have hoarded dollars right now waiting to come out of hiding, and most of the Fed expansion of the monetary supply has gone into paying off bank debt NOT into general circulation. Property and house prices are falling, wages are down, etc. So you can just as easily argue that we are on the knife’s edge of deflation as inflation. Which way we will fall and which will be worse, I do not pretend to know. I am not a self described prophet, like you.
“It is government’s attempt to prevent deflation that leads to inflation.” Yes, i agree. But whether it is inflation or hyper-inflation depends on many factors. And inflation can arguably be better for the economy than deflation, as long as it doesn’t tip over to hyper-inflation.
“How can loss of confidence in a currency bring about lower prices, which most say is deflation, which it isn’t.” I didn’t say that. I said deflation can lead to a loss in confidence in a currency, not lower prices. And deflation is not simply lower prices: it is a decrease in demand due to a contracting economy which leads to falling prices because consumers no longer have the buying power.
Kash, you whole analysis is flawed. I am trying to be kind here. Go back to the chart that shows the inflationary spiral that finally led to the hyperinflationary collapse of the German Mark. You do not know what you are talking about. This comment by you, “Billions of hoarded marks came out of hiding and entered the marketplace. We do not have hoarded dollars right now waiting to come out of hiding, and most of the Fed expansion of the monetary supply has gone into paying off bank debt NOT into general circulation.” make Dumb and Dumber look brilliant. First of all it takes time for the new money to enter the system which is why inflation is delayed. The worst part of the German inflation took place between July 1923 and December of that year. As confidence in the currency collapsed the velocity of money picked up. A fiat monetary system is fatally flawed because it is based on confidence and governments cannot help themselves in debasing the money because it provides them with the means to achieve whatever goals they wish, be it military expansion, buying votes, giving special privileges to some, etc.
This next statement by is indicative of your complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
”
Property and house prices are falling, wages are down, etc. So you can just as easily argue that we are on the knife’s edge of deflation as inflation.”
Spoken like a true Keynesian but dumber than a door knob. What on earth do property values have to do with inflation? Furthermore what do wages have to do with inflation? Declining property values are just part of an asset bubble collapse, that’s all. Wages are falling and the economy is stalling yet, gasoline prices are up as are electric bills, food, commodity prices in general, these are all signs of inflation. As a devout Keynesian you should know that unemployment and lower wages should = lower prices. I don’t see that. I see prices rising in direct relation to the US dollar falling.
Keynesian economics is being discredited as I write this message. Within the next 5 years it will be seen as a horrible joke perpetrated on humanity. Don’t become part of that joke.
“I see prices rising in direct relation to the US dollar falling.” Well, here, read this from Elliott Wave international and maybe you will get what I am talking about. http://www.elliottwave.com/deflationary-spiral.aspx
Kash; “And deflation is not simply lower prices: it is a decrease in demand due to a contracting economy which leads to falling prices because consumers no longer have the buying power.”
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, but spoken like a true Keynesian. Deflation is a reduction is the money supply / credit in an economic system. Inflation is the increase in the money supply / credit in the system. Rising or falling prices are mere symptoms of inflation or deflation.
I suggested you stop writing as the more you write the more ignorant you sound on the subject.
Given your Keynesian Worldview, I now understand why you failed to see what Doug Tjaden was trying to teach you nearly a year ago.
I guess you will have to learn the hard way.
Just one note, most inflations / hyperinflations occur during poor economic times. The late 70 to early 80 were known as the era of Stagflation, which means a poor economy, high unemployment, and rising prices. Kash, you do not know what you are talking about.
And this: http://www.elliottwave.com/us-deflation-risk.aspx
And your favorite topic: http://www.elliottwave.com/deflation-gold-relationship.aspx
Kash: “Well, here, read this from Elliott Wave international and maybe you will get what I am talking about. ”
I read and have read Bob Prechter, and he is dead wrong just as most deflationist are. I am not a mind numb robot. For example I like and read Nourile Roubini, but disagree with him vehemently on gold. He says $2000 gold is nonsense. If it is nonsense, it is only because gold is going to $3500 to $5000 or higher. I’ve read the Elliot wave gang and thus far they have been wrong. Back in 2001, when gold was at $270, Bobby P said gold would fall back to $200. He kept that going as gold cleared $300, $400, $500, and $600; then he stopped. Now he is predicting a deflationary collapse. In the end he will be right but only after we have gone through a gut wrenching severe inflation / hyperinflation. I’ve read Conquer the Crash and am familiar with Elliot Wave. I even use it in my technical analysis, but on its own it is worthless.
It seems to me that all you do is find individuals that agree with your point of view and take what they say. You dismiss anything that disagrees with anything you already believe.
That is foolishness beyond belief. I analyze everything I read and hear, and sift it through my own logical mind to see if it fits. THE DEFLATIONIST ARE WRONG and anyone that listens to them is going to get crushed.
From the same site: “The psychology driving today’s historic credit inflation has reached a terminal state, as indicated first by inflation, then by deflation. We’ve seen years of record indebtedness followed by collapsing housing prices, multi-billion-dollar write-downs and finally, by the economic slowdowns in the U.S. and Europe. All this shows that deflation is easily winning the inflation vs. deflation battle. Despite these signs, there is almost no recognition that deflation is already happening.” So apparently I am not the only moron.
kash, I have to go. It is getting late and I promised Jazz I would take him to the dog park. I’ve tried to educate you on this subject but to no avail. Let’s just leave it that we shall see. I have predicted that this winter is going to be a very cold one for the US dollar. It is also going to be miserably cold for much of the nation and dry for the west. Calif. will not get drought relief. How do I know? Because I study these things. It is based on 2 factors: 1. A weak El Nino 2. Vocanic activity in Alaska and Russia.
No, MIke, I am trying to show you that there are different opinions than yours and thus I read and evaluate all of them. I don’t come down entirely on one side or the other. I don’t know whether deflation or inflation will win the day. I don’t predict the future. You think I’m a moron (and anyone else) because I don’t see it your way. Well, I am not alone in that. I am no expert, you claim to be an expert and a prophet. I simply try to point out there is another side to your interpretation of history that is equally as valid.
But even if you are right about everything (which I doubt) I still think we should have affordable health care for every citizen, and the only way to do that is a strong public option. Which is what this blog was supposed to be about.
“Usually, but not always, government intervenes and establishes a new currency at a given exchange rate. In Post WW I Germany that exchange rate in 1924 was 1Trillion old Marks for 1 New Rettenmark.” Yep, and now all German citizens have equal access to health care.
And Bayer is a German company and the third largest pharmaceutical company in the world, and Boehringer Ingelheim is 13th. So government-run health care doesn’t appear to drive Big Pharma out of business.
Kash: “No, MIke, I am trying to show you that there are different opinions than yours and thus I read and evaluate all of them.”
You know what they say about opinions.
Kash: ” I don’t come down entirely on one side or the other. I don’t know whether deflation or inflation will win the day. I don’t predict the future.”
So if you have planned a picnic and the most reliable forecaster tells you it is going to rain and you see storm clouds building you go ahead with your picnic because the worst forecaster said it would be sunny and you choose to believe him. I fully understand that logic. You believe those that got it wrong, while rejecting those that got it right. History is irrelevent to you unless you can make it up as you go. For example, Weimar Germany first went into deflation. Yeh, right. No it didn’t it went into a credit lock up just as we did. The path we are on is exactly what happened in the Weimar Republic. The only advantage we have is that the US dollar is the reserve currency of the world, but that too is coming to an end, and when it does all those pent up dollars overseas will come flooding home. YOu see kash the US has exported its inflation for decades. Soon the world will be tired of supporting our spending. Other nations will begin to spend their savings on themselves rather than giving their production to the US in exchange for worthless pieces of paper.
Kash:” You think I’m a moron (and anyone else) because I don’t see it your way.” No you are wrong. I think this of you because you keep saying stupid things. You also quote the Elliot Wave crowd and with the exception of a few, who use commonsense and other forms of analysis, these guys have gotten it wrong far too many times. I think Prechter called the 87 crash and ever since then he is his own self proclaimed guru.
Kash: ” Well, I am not alone in that. I am no expert, you claim to be an expert and a prophet.”
No I do not proclaim to be a prophet. I just use commonsense, see current events as they unfold, which sets the trend, and am an avid student of history especially where it pertains to economics. I do not go around repeating bumper stickers. I also read and listen to those who have gotten it right. They are not 100% in their predictions and neither am I. I have said that the most successful investors are those that learn from their mistakes and correct mistakes quickly. One must be emotionless just as a good poker player must control his/her emotions.
Kash:” I simply try to point out there is another side to your interpretation of history that is equally as valid.” There is always another side to everything. Very few things are one sided, which is why I read the deflationists and the inflationists. I have read article by Harry Dent, an avid deflationists and a brilliant man. I happen to disagree with him because in my studies I have discovered that hyperinflation is NOT AN ECONOMIC EVENT IT IS A CURRENCY EVENT. All the talk about tight credit and hoarding money is simply the process that leads to the eventual inflationary bust. All one has to do is read what Jens O. Parsson’s said in his book, “The Dying of Money.”
“Everyone loves an early inflation. The effects at the beginning of inflation are all good. There is steepened money expansion, rising government spending, increased government budget deficits, booming stock markets, and spectacular general prosperity, all in the midst of temporarily stable prices. Everyone benefits, and no one pays. That is the early part of the cycle.
In the later inflation, on the other hand, the effects are all bad. The government may steadily increase the money inflation in order to stave off the latter effects, but the latter effects patiently wait. In the terminal inflation, there is faltering prosperity, tightness of money, falling stock markets, rising taxes, still larger government deficits, and still roaring money expansion, now accompanied by soaring prices and ineffectiveness of al traditional remedies. Everyone pays and no one benefits. That is the full cycle of every inflation.”
PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE LAST FEW SENTENCES: “there is faltering prosperity, tightness of money, falling stock markets, rising taxes, still larger government deficits, and still roaring money expansion, now accompanied by soaring prices and ineffectiveness of al traditional remedies. Everyone pays and no one benefits. That is the full cycle of every inflation.”
Is this not exactly what is taking place now. One does not need to be a prophet. All one has to do, is read beyond what the bozos that have been consistently wrong. Your problem is you faith and loyalty to your ideology which is as much a religion to you as Christ. When I tell you to stop being a useful idiot, I am doing so out of love. You and others like you are sowing the seeds of your own destruction. It truly breaks my heart.
kash: “But even if you are right about everything (which I doubt) I still think we should have affordable health care for every citizen, and the only way to do that is a strong public option. Which is what this blog was supposed to be about.”
Do you believe I am for UNAFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE? All I know is that if our government could not adequately manage the Katrina disaster, the rebuilding of the World Trade Center, and something as simple as Cash for Clunkers, which we are now finding out many of the exchanges were old trucks for new truck (little or no energy savings there); how on earth do you expect government to run health care in a nation as large as ours? Besides the nation is BROKE…BROKE….BROKE…BROKE. Do you realize that according to the latest government estimates the debt will double again to $25 trillion in the next decade. Do the math. Every percentage increase will push debt servicing up by $250 billion. At the normal 4% interest rate, our interest payments on the debt will be $1 trillion annually. And this is assuming we are getting out of this recession and there are no further recessions in the next decade. YOU AND ALL THOSE THAT BELIEVE AS YOU DO ARE DREAMING. The only problem is that your dream will be the nations nightmare.
Kash, this is not rocket science. It is simple commonsense and logic. Here is a link to a fantastic article by Jim Pulava. http://www.financialsense.com/series4/part1.html
Jim has a Saturday radio program that you can listen to. He has all sorts of guest and presents differing point of view. Last month he ran a series where he interviewed inflationist and deflationists. Bob Prechter was one of his guests. You can listen to that series. Here is the site for the radio program: http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html BTW, John Leofler, his trusty side kick is a Christian. Doug knows John and has a link to John’s website.
The link to his main website is: http://www.financialsense.com/
I urge you to visit Jim’s site. It is full of very useful information. The articles are by some of the best analysts you will find. Some are fundamentalists while other are market technicians. Tim Woods is one of the best on cycles, while Frank Barbera is the best technician in the business. For rock solid commonsense you cannot beat Puru Saxena and Peter Schiff. Dr. Marc Faber is my favorite just because I love his accent and wonderful sense of humor. If you want both sides to nearly every aspect of the markets, visit Jim on a regular basis.
IF you want to remain ignorant and blind, just keep listening to those that tell you what you want to hear. They are masters of MOPE. MOPE, by the way, stands for Management of Perspective Economics. It is another way of saying SPIN.
kash: ““Usually, but not always, government intervenes and establishes a new currency at a given exchange rate. In Post WW I Germany that exchange rate in 1924 was 1Trillion old Marks for 1 New Rettenmark.” Yep, and now all German citizens have equal access to health care.”
YOu have no heart. You are a raving liberal. Go tell that to the Germans that suffered during their great inflations and horrible economies that led to the rise of Hitler and the NAZIs. Just look at the faces of the people that suffered as they were forced to sell family possessions to just stay alive. Consider the elderly that lost everything including their lives due to starvation and cold. I guess the death of millions (due to the Nazis getting control) is but a small price to pay for nationalized health care.
Being stupid is one thing being heartless is quite another.
It’s impossible to take someone seriously when they make statements like this: “Now back to my predictive talents given to me by God.” Or, “I am what one would call an original thinker in that I sift through the garbage and keep only the kernals of truth.”
Just how wealthy have those God given predictive talents made you? Apparently imagined talents don’t produce tangible results in the real world but only in the imaginary world of blogs and chat sites on the Internet. FYI copying material from conservative websites is not original thinking or is it sifting through the garbage. The subject of this thread is health care reform.
Gurgus:”Just how wealthy have those God given predictive talents made you?”
Wealthy beyond measure, as are all that are in Christ. Someone in your condition, could never understand.
That said, I have made some very specific predictions and I have said how I come to those conclusions.
What conservative websites? Besides TTL, I go to Kitco, Coinflation, Gold Seek, Traditions of Men, Financial Sense, 321 Energy, the Privateer- which is quite liberal, Radio Mambi – a Cuban radio station, Short Interest, Euro Pacific Capital, INO, Financial Sense, and Raymond James.
Gurgus: “FYI copying material from conservative websites is not original thinking or is it sifting through the garbage. The subject of this thread is health care reform.”
Gurgus, you would not recognize an original thought if it hit you squarely between the eyes. I find most devout liberals and most hard core Republicans blinded by their ideologies.
Very few individuals, many of them great thinkers and scientists, do not have purely original thoughts. These people generally build in one way or another on the knowledge of others. There thoughts and opinions are not constrained by the thoughts and opinions of others…they think outside the box. People like are not only trapped inside the box, but incapable of thinking in the first place. All you do is follow a leader or theory of thought blindly, disregarding anything that is not within your realm of understanding. In other words you are mind numbed robots, as Rush Limbaugh would say. BTW, I do listen to Rush from time to time as well as Alan Combs in the evenings. I find Rush to be extremely bright when it comes to politics and football, and not the brightest bulb when it comes to economics. I like Alan because he provides a different point of view, and especially enjoy his interviews with people with opposing views.
As for my predictive abilities, I have stated exactly how I come to my conclusions. Take my methods, fundamental analysis, technical analysis, cycles, and my bread and butter Lowry Report to any stock broker or market analyst and ask them about my methods. I’ve read Edwards and Magee as well as Benjamin Graham, and many others to acquire as much knowledge on the subject of economic and investing. Speaking of which, the subject is health care and what should government’s role be in solving the problems. My contention is WE ARE BROKE….BROKE, BROKE, BROKE, BROKE. You cannot discuss the issue of government’s involvement without considering whether or not the government can afford it. When you are BROKE, BROKE, BROKE, BROKE, you can’t afford squat. Now the government can PRINT, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT money, but that would debase the currency and send PRICES SPIRALLING OUT of CONTROL, CONTROL, CONTROL. At which point the vast majority of people will be IMPOVERISHED, IMPOVERISHED, IMPOVERISHED and few will then be able to afford anything. Providing government health care while collapsing the currency is not the solution to the problem….IT IS, HOWEVER, THE ROAD TO A WHOLE NEW SET OF PROBLEMS.
This is very simple stuff, but for a person that DOES NOT THINK and merely adheres to a political ideology it is a thought process that is impossible for them to go through.
Gurgus, you claim that all I do search the Conservative websites. A claim based on your own delusions that justify whatever you want to believe about and individual. What do you make of my reading the Huffington Post and using it in my emails.
New Bill Would Keep Public In The Dark About Threats To Financial System
First Posted: 11- 6-09 01:45 PM | Updated: 11- 6-09 05:02 PM
Members of Congress and the general public may not be told of “potential emerging threats to the stability of the financial system,” thanks to a Thursday vote by a House panel shepherding the bill that’s supposed to end “too big to fail.”
An amendment offered by Rep. Gregory Meeks (D-N.Y.) and unanimously approved by a voice vote in the House Financial Services Committee specifically deletes a provision in the Financial Stability Improvement Act of 2009.
The two draft versions of the bill originally called for the proposed overseer of threats to the entire financial system to prepare an annual report to Congress describing, among other things, “significant financial market developments and potential emerging threats to the stability of the financial system.”
But on Thursday, Meeks’ amendment deleted that language and instead compels the council to describe:
“Significant financial and regulatory developments, including insurance and accounting regulations and standards, and assesses the impact of those developments on the stability of the financial system.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/06/house-panel-may-keep-publ_n_348685.html
Fascinating. A professing Christian claiming someone else can’t think for themselves. Why have you adopted ancient superstitions other people told you about then? Don’t bother answering. I’m not going to read anymore of your rambling insane posts. And guess what. No one else is either.
Gurgus: “Fascinating. A professing Christian claiming someone else can’t think for themselves. Why have you adopted ancient superstitions other people told you about then? Don’t bother answering. I’m not going to read anymore of your rambling insane posts. And guess what. No one else is either.”
Excellent. When one cannot argue a point attack the person. You made an assertion which I proved false, so off you go attacking Christianity. Spoken like ???? are you an atheist or agnostic. I would be agnostic as the “ag” mean “no or not having” and “nostic” is knowledge…..yes that is my assumption you are a complete agnostic.
As for not reading my messages on this topic that’s fine. I really do not have time to respond to some of the sheer nonsense written by some individuals.
For whatever it is worth, I consider myself “ignorant” even when I have studied a subject in detail. You and other refer to me as an “expert”, sarcastically of course, but what you fail to see is that I go from the assumption that I am wrong in my analysis. I therefore spend a great deal of time trying to prove myself wrong which is why I search out other opinions and points of view. I do not dismiss someone just because they are a liberal or conservative; Democrat, Republican, or Libertarian. Neither do I accept what they say based on the same criteria. For example: I respect and agree with much of Noureil Roubini says, but I think he is wrong on the issue of the gold price. I use Elliot Wave and believe it useful, but dismiss much of what Bob Prechter says about deflation. This is what I mean by “I sift through a great deal of information to assertain what is taking place and what the future holds in store.”
I have been dead on right about the markets and commodities. Not 100% but over 75% of the time, and as any investor can tell you that is all you need to do well in this business.
Since I am always trying to disprove myself I am constantly on the alert for errors. One does well investing when one fixes mistakes quickly before they become disasters.
Like Yra Harris once said, a wasted day is one where one does not learn. Yra Harris, is one of the best traders in the business. On the day of the stock market crash in 1987, a reporter asked him, “What kind of day did you have?” Yra answered, ” I had a great day, I learned something.”
Some people never have great days. I feel sorry for them.
“You are a raving liberal.” Yes, because according to you anyone who takes Jesus seriously when he says feed the poor, care for the sick, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner is a “raving liberal”. Also known as sheep of the Good Shepherd.
Mike, you put your trust in gold. Guess what? Gold is just like fiat money in that it is the wealth of this world. The only thing that is eternal is the prosperity of God. You have deluded yourself into thinking that gold is the prosperity of God, that it has “staying power” unlike fiat money or any other type of wordly wealth. Your entire focus is how to secure permanent wealth in this world, thus your faith in gold and gold backed currency and gold backed investments. Even if you are right, and the dollar collapses, and we have hyperinflation and are no longer the world’s reserve currency, that doesnt mean that your wealth is any more permanent than any other.
Kash,
Here are some of the insults your childish nemesis has hurled on just this thread alone:
In your case all I can say, is you are a ??????…..no offense to morons.
I would not expect anyone with your intellect, being able to discuss a subject as simple as economics.
I doubt it as it would tax your puny mind to the point of exhaustion.
You message was pure venom, and the sign of a person that is intellectually bankrupt.
One final note. You may have convinced me to accept evolutionary theory. I think we have discovered the Missing Link……no offense to any Missing Links.
1.You either do not know the size of the national debt. 2. You do not know the nations income. 3. You are stupid.
As for Kash, she is a Useful Idiot that has now resorted to sniping.
Let’s all play nice will never work so long as the Second Coming is still in the future. Are you this mindless? Really, you make Bernie sound like a total rational human being with no ax to grind.
Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you really are this stupid.
Just when I thought no one human being could be this ignorant…..notice that I am refraining from the word stupid as that has such a negative connotation
You sound silly, dumb, stupid, without any knowledge what-so-ever, laughable, rediculous, insane….someone help me I’m running out of adverbs.
This next statement by is indicative of your complete lack of knowledge on the subject.
Spoken like a true Keynesian but dumber than a door knob.
I suggested you stop writing as the more you write the more ignorant you sound on the subject.
IF you want to remain ignorant and blind, just keep listening to those that tell you what you want to hear.
Being stupid is one thing being heartless is quite another.
Wealthy beyond measure, as are all that are in Christ. Someone in your condition, could never understand.
Gurgus, you would not recognize an original thought if it hit you squarely between the eyes.
This is very simple stuff, but for a person that DOES NOT THINK and merely adheres to a political ideology it is a thought process that is impossible for them to go through.
Then after all this name calling and insult hurling we read:
“Excellent. When one cannot argue a point attack the person. You made an assertion which I proved false, so off you go attacking Christianity. Spoken like ???? are you an atheist or agnostic.”
Talk about not being able to argue a point! This guy trips over his own words and contradicts himself in every sentence he types, or likely has typed for him. Go back through the archives and check these predictions he made that he claims have come true. It’s November and the dollar is not worthless and we don’t have double-digit inflation. Two failed predictions right there. Someone could go through these old posts and make a list of his failed predictions because it would be even longer than the list of insults and derogatory remarks he’s made. I don’t have any more time to waste with this person. We should all just ignore him. He’ll probably hold his breath until he turns blue and passes out. Perhaps when he awakens he’ll have come to his senses and act like a decent human being. Or not.
If only I had the free time you seemed to have to compile such a list of information to be used to make a point[smile].
Mike is not that bad, Gurgus, he’s just…very passionate on that particular topic. If you can find a thread where he’s debating about something else then you may discover that he can be a rather likable character[grin].
Kash: “Mike, you put your trust in gold. Guess what? Gold is just like fiat money in that it is the wealth of this world. The only thing that is eternal is the prosperity of God. You have deluded yourself into thinking that gold is the prosperity of God, that it has “staying power” unlike fiat money or any other type of wordly wealth. Your entire focus is how to secure permanent wealth in this world, thus your faith in gold and gold backed currency and gold backed investments. Even if you are right, and the dollar collapses, and we have hyperinflation and are no longer the world’s reserve currency, that doesnt mean that your wealth is any more permanent than any other.”
You don’t get it. You do not know the difference between the earthly and the spirtual. No wealth on this earth lasts which is why we are to steward it FOR GOD’S GLORY. I do not put my trust in gold or silver or anything else. My trust is 100% in the Lord my God. As a steward of all he has given me, I am to administer it FOR HIS GLORY, I am HIS SERVANT, he is not my servant. Doug and I tried, believe me we tried to instruct Christians as to the evil of Fiat money. It is by its nature EVIL. Gold by its nature is good. The Bible even says so. It is part of God’s creation. Who creates Fiat Money? Who manages its supply? Who decides the cost of that money?
As long as we are alive and breathing are we not to steward all that God has given us for HIS GLORY? Do we let our children run wild with no discipline and just pray for them that God intervenes and straightens them out. God gave you specific talents, such as an interest in veterinary medicine. Why did you become a vet? Do you provide your services free of charge? If someone comes to you with a sick animal and they cannot pay, do you provide your services for free? Do you charge people on a sliding scale, according to their ability to pay?
If you do charge for your sevices then I could accuse you of being a greedy so and so, whose only interest in attaining worldly wealth. You say, you have investments in the stock market, timber, farm land……does that suggest you are only interested in attaining worldly possessions?
I am far less greedy than you are kash…….far, far less.
You stated, “You have deluded yourself into thinking that gold is the prosperity of God…” All I can say is Bernie, I mean kash, please stop saying things that are totally false. I’ve never said that and neither has Doug Tjaden. All I have said is…..no pay attention so you get this right…..GOLD IS HONEST MONEY while the US dollar is DISHONEST MONEY…it is a fake….a fraud and will soon reach its intrinsic value.
Kash: “Even if you are right, and the dollar collapses, and we have hyperinflation and are no longer the world’s reserve currency, that doesnt mean that your wealth is any more permanent than any other.”
This is the most ignorant statement I think I have ever read and believe I have read many. You have just contradicted 5,000 years of history.
John: “If only I had the free time you seemed to have to compile such a list of information to be used to make a point[smile].
Mike is not that bad, Gurgus, he’s just…very passionate on that particular topic. If you can find a thread where he’s debating about something else then you may discover that he can be a rather likable character[grin].
”
Thanks John for the support. I am getting more and more passionate about the topic of our Monetary / Financial system, which are corrupt beyond measure.
With the aid of our politicians, past and present, the banksters are taking down the economy and causing real human misery. I keep saying this, “It breaks my heart to see a once great nation destroyed from within.” My church is getting more and more requests from the community for financial assistence to pay of home heating oil. But donations to the ministries are way off this year and continue to fall. Many of our own congregation are feeling the pain of this economic downturn, and it is only going to get worse.
Some people on this board think that all I am interested in making money. Nothing could be further from the truth, and I will explain later.
If the US had an internal enemy that wanted to destroy the nation, they could not do a better job than the politicians that have been running this country now for several generations. The last administration was bad enough, but this new one is heading us into the abyss at warp speed. Everything they are doing is making matters worse, just like everything G. Bush did helped accelerate this catastrophe. At the heart of it all is the Federal Reserve. It is the cancer that must first be gotten under control then eventually killed.
Gurgus: ” Go back through the archives and check these predictions he made that he claims have come true. It’s November and the dollar is not worthless and we don’t have double-digit inflation. Two failed predictions right there. Someone could go through these old posts and make a list of his failed predictions because it would be even longer than the list of insults and derogatory remarks he’s made. ”
Why didn’t you quote me on my predictions instead of summarizing them in your own words. I’ll tell you why; because you are a liar. I never said we would be at hyperinflation by November. As a matter of fact I said, that by Thanksgiving and probably the first 2 weeks of November, we would be hearing a louder call for AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE DOLLAR BY MANY NATIONS. I also said that such announcement would lead to dollar weakness and the dollar has been weak. Now right now the dollar should rally some, but thus far it has gone up much. At least it is not breaking to new lows, but I expect that once this short term counter trend exhausts itself the dollar will break to new lows. As for the beginning of hyperinflation, I said it would begin once the dollar broke down to the 72 to 74 level. It hasn’t done that. But I have also tried to teach people that hyperinflation begins very slowly at first. Go back to the chart of the German Mark and you will see the greatest devaluation took place in the last 6 months of the Mark. Then the government went to a new currency.
Inflation is already here. Gasoline is up over $1 in the past year. Copper, lead, and zinc have doubled. The grains are beginning to rise and it is my guess that bread prices will soon start higher. My electric and water rates have also gone up as have those of many others around the country. Real estate taxes in many areas are causing people to lose their homes due to tax liens. The cost of nearly everything we need to survive, food, water, energy is rising yet the economy remains mired deep in recession which is really a depression.
I cannot give you the exact date of the hyperinflationary depression because it is a process. Hyperinflation is cause by the velocity of money going ballistic as people dishoard money that is losing value for real goods.
I have one question for you Gurgus. Are you Bernie’s twin brother? You sound an awful lot like him.
Gurgus: “I don’t have any more time to waste with this person.”
Good.
Kash, I know I keep referring to gold but in all honesty I like Silver much more than gold. I think silver will outperform gold and as such will not just preserve wealth it will actually increase it.
Right now Gold is at $1095 and Silver is at $17.50. If gold goes to $3500 as I expect it to, Silver should get to $175. Gold goes up 3 fold while silver goes 10.
Gold at $3500 means we are in the grips of hyperinflation’; not as bad as Weimar or Zimbabwe but pretty bad never-the-less. I continue to pray we never see gold at $3500, but in truth that is my low ball estimate for a peak. I really think that at the rate we are printing money, gold will eventually get to $5000 if not higher. At that point it will begin to feel like Zimbabwe.
Remember, gold is merely being measured against an ever increasing amout of fiat dollars. Gold’s price is not rising, it is the US dollar that is falling.
Mike post 61,
You’re welcome Mike. That was a touch of that weird sense of fairness and honesty that I seem to be cursed with[smile].
“I am getting more and more passionate about the topic of our Monetary/Financial system, which are corrupt beyond measure.”
Yeah.
I can tell[...Grin...].
Just don’t get yourself so worked up that you need to take some medication or something for the frustration, eh?
John: “Just don’t get yourself so worked up that you need to take some medication or something for the frustration, eh?”
I just spend a lot of time in prayer. I use to drink but that was before I accepted the Lord. I had one relapse about 4 or 5 years ago. I used the excuse of realizing the catastrophe that awaited the US in the years ahead. My fellow brothers in Christ, mostly my Sunday school class came to see me after I had missed church several times, which was so unlike me. They brought me back before I fell totally into the alcohol abyss.
Drugs are not my thing, liquor is but I now have the Lord to comfort me. What is it the Bible says….”all works for good for those that love the Lord.” From that stand point I put it all in His hands, but He has laid it on my heart to warn people of the coming financial and energy shortage storms.
It does not take a prophet to read the data provided by CERA, the BP Statistical Review, the IEA, and EIA to realize that by 2013 the world will be short 6 to 7 million barrels of oil per day.
It also does not take any great fortune telling prowess to crunch the numbers regarding grain stock, which are at historic lows and the poor rice crop in India this year. Couple that with the massive loss of agricultural land in many countries, especially in China and to some extent in the US, and all it will take is a bad harvest in any of the bread basket countries and the world will experience famine in many places.
Most Americans cannot fathom really bad economic times such as most of the world has experienced from time to time. We were cursed with the position of global dominance and a world reserve currency that allowed us to buy goods in exchange for dollars. Paper in exchange for clothing, washing machines, electronics, etc. What a deal for us and what a rotten deal for the producing nations, but now that game is over and now we are dependent on others. We like to think that the world depends on the US, but nothing could be further from the truth. They would be much better off if they stopped lending us money, and started using their savings for their own people. I think they have figured this out. All that is left is a way to unload all those worthless dollars without collapsing the currency they hold. It will be a gradual process but the process has already begun. Almost no one understands what is taking place and the media keeps pumping out propaganda from Washington so as to keep the people fooled.
What aggrevates me is that there are Christians that continue to support the most Ungoldly, selfish, selfcentered, greedy, corrupt government the US has ever had. They are literally supporting the very government that will enslave them and their children. I do not understand them.
I am glad for you that you were able to overcome the drinking problem, Mike.
It’s both expensive and unhealthy for the body ans well as the mind[after all, it IS a type of poison].
Gurgus: Really, you make Bernie sound like a total rational human being with no ax to grind.
I’m fully convinced that only a veteran poster would create something like post #58. It’s really something how you highlight Mike’s comments about Bernie. It’s as though you take them personally.
kash: Mike, you put your trust in gold.
So, in the same way, you put your trust in fiat currency/the Fed.
I don’t think it is fair for the Fed to have the ability to change the value of our money. Why do you think that’s alright?
kash: Even if you are right, and the dollar collapses, and we have hyperinflation and are no longer the world’s reserve currency, that doesnt mean that your wealth is any more permanent than any other.
In the situation you described people will be more willing to buy gold than worthless paper dollars, proving you wrong. Paper is easy to come by…which reminds me… I heard a story about Zimbabwean hyperinflation – I heard it was more economical to blow your nose with their fiat currency than to buy a package of tissues.
Not only does the government tax the population heavily – it also gains through debasing the population’s money. If this doesn’t strike you as stealing I don’t know what would.
b baggins: “Not only does the government tax the population heavily – it also gains through debasing the population’s money. If this doesn’t strike you as stealing I don’t know what would.”
Well said b baggins. Furthermore let me add that inflating away the value of the currency impacts the poor and middleclass more so than the rich. A family of 4 living off $1600 per month has its purchasing power deminished by 50% is in much worse shape than Wall Street connected banksters earning 6 figures or more.
Yesterday the House passed health care and the US dollar fell hard. Just look at this short term chart: http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&v=w Now kash might say that the US dollar was already trending down. While she would be correct to make such a comment, markets often anticipate major decisions, so I believe the Forex traders realized that passing the currently proposed healthcare plan would lead to further deficits and a weaker dollar.
Should the dollar break below 74.90 it would then be on its way to 72 – 74 support. So here we are on November 9, 2009 right on schedule for the USD to begin its next leg down, which I must admit surprises me a bit. Why would a further weakening in the dollar surprise me? On a short term cycle basis and based on oversold levels in the technicals, the dollar was suppose to rally. We were entering a period where the USD SHOULD RALLY. Key word SHOULD. The House of Representative’s actions are one of those out of the ordinary events, that changed a cycle pattern. Short term cycles are also notorious for expanding, contracting, and sometimes skipping a beat. The USD will at some point rally but from what levels. As I write the USDX is but .20 away from breaking to a new yearly low.
As I am here listening to a liberal / moderate leaning radio show, the news announcer just announced that Charlotte, NC police are reporting a sharp rise in shoplifting. Even family dollar is not immune and those stores are seeing an increase in theft of food items. People are now stealing food to make ends meet. Shoplifting in Charlotte is up 40% in 2009. As the economy weakens and the dollar declines, theft will be the norm as people try to make ends meet or feed their families. This is what happens in 3rd world nations. People steal in order to survive. In time, as conditions deteriorate, we will see more violent crime in the form of home invasions and muggings. People will be mugged for their jewelry, even a man’s wedding band will be worth the risk to criminals. I also expect to see more women and even teenagers enter the sex trade. This too is common in 3rd world nations. Foreigners will be coming here to buy up American assets cheap and many Americans will have Chinese bosses.
This is what awaits us. This is what is beginning to take place right now. It is all a process, not an event. You just don’t wake up one morning and suddenly discover your country has been ruined. We are like the frog in cool water that is being heated; slowly we are being cooked.
I don’t mind Gurgus as he is not a servant of Christ. What I do not understand is how professed Christians like Kash and MattF, support the very system that is bringing this nation down.
Government sponsored health care is just another nail in the USD’s coffin. Government continues to move in the wrong direction. We need to cut government expenses, lower taxes, and provide insentives to produce. America does not need to spend more we need to save and invest. That is what will eventually lead us out of the depression we are in and how we can avoid hyperinflation.
kash: ““You are a raving liberal.” Yes, because according to you anyone who takes Jesus seriously when he says feed the poor, care for the sick, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner is a “raving liberal”. Also known as sheep of the Good Shepherd.”
Jesus was speaking to us as individuals, he was not telling us to establish a government that would then, by force, take money from some and give it to others.
Why do you continue to misrepresent what Jesus said. A liberal, and by the way liberals are notorious for keeping their money tight to their vest and not giving much to charity, in today’s world believes in government as the solution. In the past a liberal was a person that proposed freedom from government as they rightly saw government as the oppressor.
There is a difference in what we as Christians should do in our personal lives and the responsibility of government.
The way you see things, the US should have forgiven the Japanese for their attack on Pearl, and not declared war on Germany after Hitler declared war on the US on Dec. 11, 1941. We should have just pray for das Fuhrer, instead of fighting the Germans, Italians, and Japanese. After all did not Jesus tell us to pray for our enemies?
Kash, you really need to stop distorting the Bible and Christ’s words the way you do. I do not think for a minute that you do not understand the difference between personal behavior, which is what Christ addressed, from the responsibilites of government. As a Christian, I believe you are treading on some very thin ice. Furthermore, you are providing evidence that your NUMBER ONE religion is that of Statist and not Christianity. You use Christ, distorting what He said, to support your Statist view.
“Jesus was speaking to us as individuals, he was not telling us to establish a government that would then, by force, take money from some and give it to others.” You can always move to some other country if you don’t like paying taxes.
“A liberal, and by the way liberals are notorious for keeping their money tight to their vest and not giving much to charity,” Hmm, personal attacks. You know nothing about how much I give for charity. But we all know that individuals – whether conservative or liberal – don’t give enough to help everyone who needs and deserves it unless they are forced to by their societal obligations.
“The way you see things, the US should have forgiven the Japanese for their attack on Pearl, and not declared war on Germany after Hitler declared war on the US on Dec. 11, 1941.” Well, this is a big leap, and a total misrepresentation of anything I have ever said.
“We should have just pray for das Fuhrer, instead of fighting the Germans, Italians, and Japanese. After all did not Jesus tell us to pray for our enemies?” Are you mocking me or Jesus? It’s hard to tell.
Just for an example: on Saturday, this “liberal” spent her entire day standing outside a Petco with 8 dogs for adoption and 5 cats. Today during my lunch break I am going to WalMart to buy cold medicine for a family of 6 who have no health care and all have colds but no money to put gas in their car, drive to the health department, or pay for cold medicine themselves. The father has a colostomy bag from a misdiagnosed colonic abscess but can only be seen by the local hospital ER because no doctor will see him with no money and no insurance. He so far has been denied disability because its not that easy to get if you have no way to get to a hearing and the only lawyer in this rural area that helps people file is swamped with cases. In the meantime they have no income except what various small local churches provide, but the churches are running out of patience and charity and now accuse them of “using” their services, but I ask you, how exactly are they to get out of this hole without government aid? The mother can’t work, three of the six children aren’t school age yet. People in my church are telling me to stop helping them, that they have had “enough” help. As if paying their bills for one month and occasionally giving them canned goods is going to keep them from starving. This family is going to need help at least until all the kids get to school so the mom can go to work, and even then the chances of her finding a job that will support a family of 6 kids is pretty slim in this rural, depressed area.
Mike: Jesus was speaking to us as individuals, he was not telling us to establish a government that would then, by force, take money from some and give it to others.
You still haven’t explained why an order from God to collect a tithe (or an accusation from God that people who were not giving the whole tithe were stealing from Him) carries less weight than any threat a government might be able to devise, or makes following the order “optional” in any sense. Is it only because the threat of punishment is not directly apparent (i.e., there’s no “point of a spear” in the case of God’s commandment)? Should we only take God’s commandments (or our own laws) seriously when it appears that they can be reasonably enforced?
I’d also be interested in knowing how you understand verses like this (Ezekiel 16:49, NASB):
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.
It would seem that you would take the stand that here, Sodom’s government is not being condemned, but Sodom’s people. Given that it’s Sodom that is mentioned and not its people, how do you know that’s not just your own interpretive quirk? If Sodom had put measures into its government to care for the poor more effectively, would this condemnation have remained? Why (or why not)?
Before you accuse me of defending someone else (Horrors! How dare a Christian even think about lending emotional support to another!) or leap to insulting my intelligence or integrity, I would really appreciate knowing how you rationalize your exegesis.
I have to admit that in a clinical sense, I find Mike’s reliance on adjectives and how he seems to think that they are damning. “You’re a Keynesian statist.” It seems that once he has the right term, he feels henceforth, his philosophical opponent must follow all the ideas and behavior he assigns to them. It would be fascinating if he weren’t trying to be vicious in the same stroke.
The first problem with this, of course, is that it’s not always a problem. Even if, in his accusation, he happens to be correct, his assignment of his opponent to Category X doesn’t prove anything. For it to be an effective debate tactic, it has to be shown that Category X is bad. His philosophical opponent may not think it’s a bad thing (for example, not everyone objects to being labeled a “liberal”).
The real issue, though, is that his categories will always fail to impress deeper thinkers. Words to classify people are human inventions, an effort to help some make sense of a confusing world. As such, one’s desire to put people into boxes doesn’t tell us much about his opponents — but it tells us volumes about his outlook.
The fact of the matter is that no one’s thoughts on complex matters can be reduced to single terms or even a short phrase. These categories certainly can’t be used to predict behavior and opinions of someone you disagree with; all these wrong guesses do is waste time as the opponent has to try to explain what he or she really thinks. It’s especially pernicious when this effort to try to elucidate is simply ignored.
The words you apply to someone else’s thoughts are not important if you want to show the correctness of your point of view. If all you try to do is summarize another person’s thoughts into simplistic terms, that’s not insight; that’s judgment. As for me, I’m not really interested in what Mike thinks about his opponents so much as why he thinks what he does.
Really, Mike, if you’re so keen on getting your message out quickly, you would do well to avoid behaviors such as these that do nothing but waste time.
MattF: [...] how he seems to think that they are damning.
Urg. Make that “… how he seems to think that they are damning rather interesting.”
Kash: ““Jesus was speaking to us as individuals, he was not telling us to establish a government that would then, by force, take money from some and give it to others.” You can always move to some other country if you don’t like paying taxes.”
You continue to obfuscate all over the place. Now you are giving me the “love it or leave” argument except instead it is in reference to taxes. Even the dumbest bulb in the pile would recognize your argument as not just faulty but ludicrous.
Kash: ““A liberal, and by the way liberals are notorious for keeping their money tight to their vest and not giving much to charity,” Hmm, personal attacks. You know nothing about how much I give for charity.” I wasn’t referring to you, I was referring to the gracious and loving politicians that run our country. During every election cycle the amount of money contributed to charity by politicians clearly shows that liberals, that love to give away other people’s money, give very little of their own.
”
Independent Sector, a nonpartisan coalition of approximately 600 charities, foundations and corporate philanthropy programs, reports that 89 percent of American households contribute to charity, with an average contribution of $1,620, or 3.1 percent of income.”
“Obama — The Obamas gave more than $240,000 to charity last year, about 5.7% of their income, their tax return shows. Their charitable giving has risen with their income; in 2000, when the couple made $240,726, they gave $2,350 to charity, about 1% of their income.” Seems like the Obama’s decided to give a bit more since Barak was running for President. Nice political move.
“Biden — The Bidens reported earning $319,853 last year, including $71,000 in royalties for his memoir, Promises to Keep: On Life and Politics. The Bidens reported giving $995 in charitable donations last year — about 0.3% of their income and the highest amount in the past decade. The low was $120 in 1999, about 0.1% of yearly income. Over the decade, the Bidens reported a total of $3,690 in charitable donations, or 0.2% of their income. Biden spokesman David Wade said in an e-mail that the Bidens “also contribute to their favorite causes with their time as well as their checkbooks.”
”
McCain — John McCain reported giving more than $202,000 — a quarter of his income — to charity in 2006 and 2007, the only years for which his campaign released his tax returns. His campaign didn’t release information about his wife’s charitable contributions, however. In 2006, her total itemized tax deductions, a category which includes charitable contributions and other deductible items such as mortgage interest, was $569,737, or 9.3% of her income. ”
Gore — Then-Vice President Al Gore came under fire when his 1997 tax return showed only $353 in donations to charity; he and his wife, Tipper, gave $15,000 to charity, or nearly 7% of their income, in each of the following two years. ” Gore is scheduled to be the first Carbon Credit Billionaire if Cap / Trade passes.
“Cheney — When Vice President Dick Cheney was campaigning in 2000, he defended his family’s charitable donations of $209,832, or about 1%, of the $20.6 million he earned from 1989 to 1999. “It’s a private matter … a matter of private choice,” Cheney said in 2000. Last year, Cheney and his wife, Lynne Cheney, donated more than $166,000 to charity, or about 5.5% of their income, according to the Chronicle of Philanthropy.” Looks like “deficits don’t matter” Dick Chaney is a bit of a tightwad except when the light of politics forces him to pay up.
“Wealthy Americans — Another study of wealthy households in 2005 found average yearly donations of $40,746 from people with incomes from $200,000 per year to $500,000 per year, Rooney says. But like most statistics on giving, those numbers are skewed upwards by a small number of people who give large amounts to charity, says Rooney, formerly the center’s research director.” While this does not indicate political leanings, in the book “The Millionaire next Door” one of the characteristics of that group (most of which are small business owners) is their charitable giving. I wonder how many of those folks are liberal and how many are conservatives?
“Average American — Nationally, more than two-thirds of U.S. households reported giving to charity in 2004, with average contributions of $2,047 that year, according to a study released in January by the Center on Philanthropy at Indiana University. Those households who gave to charity averaged donations of about 3% of their income, says Patrick Rooney, the center’s interim executive director. ”
NOW HERE IS A GOOD ONE:
Kerry’s 2003 return shows that he received $175,000 as his part from the sale of a work by the 17th-century Dutch seascape painter Adam Willaerts.
Kerry’s Senate salary for 2003 was $147,818.
The return says Kerry acquired his half of the painting for $500,000 in May 1996 and sold his portion in March 2003 for $675,000.
In 1996, the year he acquired his half of the $1,000,000 picture, Kerry reported a total income of $143,795.
The return does not say who owned the other half of the painting, which sold in 2003 for a total of $1,350,000, but it was presumably Kerry’s multimillionaire heiress wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry. The two file separate tax returns, and the campaign did not release any information about Mrs. Kerry’s income or taxes.
Kerry also reported $89,220 in royalties from his campaign autobiography, A Call to Service: My Vision for a Better America, published last October by Viking Press.
In all, taking into account losses from investments, Kerry reported a total 2003 income of $395,338. His total federal tax bill was $90,575. He had $27,277 of that withheld from his paychecks and paid the rest, $63,298, with his tax return.
Kerry reported giving $43,735, or about 11 percent of his total income, to charity. That significant level of giving stands in contrast to his record in the 1990s, in which the issue of the senator’s charitable contributions was a source of controversy. In 1995, Kerry reportedly had a taxable income of $126,179, and made charitable contributions of $0. In 1994, he gave $2,039 to charity. In 1993, the figure was $175. In 1992, it was $820, and in 1991, it was $0.
Kerry’s 2003 return illustrates the extent to which Kerry’s lifestyle is subsidized by his wife. Apart from the income from the painting, Kerry’s Senate salary would not be enough to pay the property taxes on the several residences they own.” Notice that Sen. Kerry, that bleeding heart liberal was as tight as he could be but decided to loosen up in his run for President. Besides Kerry depends on his wife.
“As far as Bush is concerned, in 1991, the future president, then a private citizen, reportedly had income of $179,591, and charitable contributions of $28,236. In 1992, Bush reported income of $212.313, and contributions of $31,914. In 1993, Bush reported income of $610,772, and contributions of $31,292. In 1994, Bush reported income of $474,937 and in 1995, income of $419,481. Published reports at that time did not list Bush’s charitable contributions for those two years.” The last line is interesting but say nothing. It just states that his contribution were not published.
So there you have it. Just like all the tax cheats we have heard about seem to have the D for their party affiliation. These are the very people that want everyone else to pay up and pay we will, either through direct taxes or through the hidden tax of inflation.
MattF: “You still haven’t explained why an order from God to collect a tithe (or an accusation from God that people who were not giving the whole tithe were stealing from Him) carries less weight than any threat a government might be able to devise, or makes following the order “optional” in any sense.”
Hey MattF, you live in a theoritical world while I live in the real world. Gold’s rally and the USD decline are not theoretical they are real. Now to answer your question. I know Christians, and the statistics bear me out, that do not tithe or give very little to the church. I have yet to see God garnish their wages, confiscate their property, or throw them in jail. If you happen to hear of such a thing I am sure you will let us all know. I await patiently to here of such a news story.
MattF: “I’d also be interested in knowing how you understand verses like this (Ezekiel 16:49, NASB):
Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy.”
Surely you are not suggesting that S & G should have established government welfare in order to avoid their cataclysm? Or are you? That passage BTW, suggest that these people had become so hedonistic that they did not even care about the misery of others. The whole society was about self gratification…….HMMMM now that sounds vaguely familiar.
MattF: “Really, Mike, if you’re so keen on getting your message out quickly, you would do well to avoid behaviors such as these that do nothing but waste time.”
Yeh, I am a bit impatient. I’ve been trying to get my message out for over a year. Ask Stu, I started calling in on this topic months, maybe even a year, before I appeared on the show with Doug Tjaden. Believe me, I had no plans to be on the air with Stu and Doug. I came in to give Stu some information which I had written down and the next thing I knew I had a mike stuck in my face. To say I was nervous is an understatement.
Once again here is the link to that show and comments made: http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/01/27/fools-gold-global-economics-from-a-biblical-worldview/#comments You will notice that Kash has not budged an inch and if you read through Doug’s attempts to show her the error’s in thinking, she just blocks every attempt. Kash continues to do the same thing and quite effectively twists what a person says to fit her views.
MattF:”The words you apply to someone else’s thoughts are not important if you want to show the correctness of your point of view. If all you try to do is summarize another person’s thoughts into simplistic terms, that’s not insight; that’s judgment.”
My Daddy use to tell me that when a person’s head is made of cement, it suggests they are hardheaded. I would add that solid steel makes for a hard headed. My Dad, who I consider absolutely brilliant and a man of vision (he left Cuba in the 40s and spent 20 years trying to convince relatives that Cuba was doomed. At the time Cuba was one of the most advanced nations of Latin America. They finally started listening to him in 1968) also told me there are brilliant people that can design all sorts of complex machinery but do not have the mechanical skills to open a can of beans.
MattF, you are very good with words and I assume very intellectual. You knowledge on some subjects indicates you are a learned man. My only question is, “Can you open a can of bean?”
I have anothe question, “At what point….what will it take…before you realize that our standard of living is in long term decline, that inflation is seriously impacting the least able to protect themselves, and that government has made the crisis worse? What will it take MattF? Will you have see a loved one murdered for a handful of jewelry as happened to a man in South Florida. Will you have to see children begging on the streets of America or young women with college degrees getting into the sex trade…oh that is already starting to take place. What will it take? Apparently 18.8 million empty homes many of which have been foreclosed and an estimated 7 million more next year is not sufficient for you to realize that something is seriously wrong. What will it take MattF for you to realize that the bigger government gets the more of a nation’s wealth is consumed. How many people have to be listed as unemployed. U6 has us at 17.5% but the truth is unemployment, real unemployment is probably closer to 22%.
I am asking you serious questions…serious because they do not involve a great deal of intellectual study all they require is a heart….a human heart that bleeds for people in pain.
Right now I do not see any signs of a beating heart from either you or Kash. Of course statists don’t have hearts, all they have is their undying faith and love for the State. Such a frame of mind leads them to the conclusion that we must all serve the state….the people exist for the state and not the other way around.
MattF: “As for me, I’m not really interested in what Mike thinks about his opponents so much as why he thinks what he does.”
Are you this dense?
I weep for my country. I cry out for all the people that are being hurt by the very government that is suppose to serve but has been and is now enslaving the vast majority of Americans.
I shouldn’t be surprised by your comment. Of course you would not understand me. One has to have a human heart to understand where I am coming from.
Mike: Hey MattF, you live in a theoritical world while I live in the real world. Gold’s rally and the USD decline are not theoretical they are real.
Yes, yes. I know these things are real. But if I am to see if your explanations of these phenomena make sense, I have to see how they hold up (at a minimum) to Scripture.
Mike: I know Christians, and the statistics bear me out, that do not tithe or give very little to the church.
I’m not talking about Christians. I’m talking about the ancient Israelites, whom, you argued, were not required to give their tithe under threat of punishment.
Mike: I have yet to see God garnish their wages, confiscate their property, or throw them in jail.
Well, I’d argue that Christians are not required to give ten percent; the model for our giving is more radical. But to get back on topic, your described difference between the ancient Israelite tithe and modern taxation and wealth redistribution is that there was no governmental threat in the case of the former. Even though no specific punishment was defined for failure to tithe by the ancient Israelites, did that mean that such a failure — to disobey God’s command! — was somehow less serious than the threats a government might issue?
Mike: Surely you are not suggesting that S & G should have established government welfare in order to avoid their cataclysm?
I don’t think that would have been enough all by itself, no. But would some form of wealth redistribution, even if governmentally administrated, have removed this specific condemnation of Sodom’s behavior? That’s my question.
Mike: That passage BTW, suggest that these people had become so hedonistic that they did not even care about the misery of others. The whole society was about self gratification…….HMMMM now that sounds vaguely familiar.
No arguments here. But can you answer the question?
Kash: “Just for an example: on Saturday, this “liberal” spent her entire day standing outside a Petco with 8 dogs for adoption and 5 cats. Today during my lunch break I am going to WalMart to buy cold medicine for a family of 6 who have no health care and all have colds but no money to put gas in their car, drive to the health department, or pay for cold medicine themselves. ”
I commend you. Well done. But why haven’t you sold all you have and given it to the poor. Isn’t that what Jesus told us as individuals to do. Why are you acquiring wealth in the form of a stock portfolio, a business, and investments in land and timber? So what if you provide people with a tiny percent of your accumulated wealth? The widow Jesus spoke of gave all she had, why don’t you? Are you that greedy? HMMMMM
Kash: “Are you mocking me or Jesus? It’s hard to tell.” You know full well the point I was trying to make in my statements # 70. You are the one that MOCKS Christ when you deliberately misquote Him. For example you stated in # 56, “Yes, because according to you anyone who takes Jesus seriously when he says feed the poor, care for the sick, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner is a “raving liberal”. Also known as sheep of the Good Shepherd.” I was talking of government and you used Jesus’s words to suggest we should support government that redistributes wealth. One cannot assign what Jesus meant for us as indivduals to government, and you know it.
MattF: “Yes, yes. I know these things are real. But if I am to see if your explanations of these phenomena make sense, I have to see how they hold up (at a minimum) to Scripture.”
THEN GO TO DOUG TJADEN’S WEBSITE AND SPEND A MINIMUM OF 1 HOUR LISTENING TO HIS VARIOUS VIDEOS. If that doesn’t convince you then there is nothing I can say to you. If you want to go into more detail click on the video link to “Fiat Empire”. It will take an hour but it is a very interesting video. If that perks your curiosity, you may wish to click on the link to the 1Hr.+ video where Jason Hommel introduces Doug to a group of Christians.
Doug has written two books on the subject that explains it all in detail. I’ve given you numerous sources of information, if these do not convince you of the evils of fiat money then nothing will. I don’t have time to write you a book on the subject besides the books have been written.
I’ve got things to do. Right now you are asking me to waste my time on an individual that is determined to remain ignorant. So be it.
MattF, Doug put so well early in his statements to Kash. Here is just one:
Kash,
Read my book and view my video series and I believe you will understand fully why our fiat monetary system is 100% responsible for our present troubles. If you go to the web site and to the blog, you can download the book in .pdf for free if you don’t want to purchase a hard copy.
Alex,
When our US dollar collapses in a hyperinflation, we will be starting from scratch. Other nations have done it before. It won’t be without pain. In fact those holding paper dollars will indeed lose their entire wealth. Those who preserve their wealth through the coming storm will have done so by holding gold, silver, and any other tangible asset. That is how it has always happened throughout history. It is how it will happen this time. Please become a student of history. God shows us that He is immutable and is consistent in how He deals with man’s creation of money. Google, John Law, study the currency debasement of the Roman empire, google Wiemar Germany. The list is long.
Kash,
There is enough gold and silver to back a capitalistic system. The question is, how fast does the economy need to grow? Greed and seeking creature comforts drives the need to “grow” the economy quickly. Why is faster economic growth more important than sustainable steady growth? It should not be. This is a paradigm shifting question. If one thinks in terms of our standard of living in terms of “things”, then a gold backed system would not be a good one. If one thinks in terms of our standard of living being in relationships – first vertically with Christ, then horizontally with others, then it is a perfect system. We either think with God’s priorities or man’s.
“So what if you provide people with a tiny percent of your accumulated wealth?” Exactly. Which is why I support government taxing wealth and redistributing it in the form of welfare and health care for all. THere is a fundamental standard of living that all US citizens deserve, because we are a wealthy nation, but the wealthiest among us aren’t going to voluntarily give enough or have the means to ensure fair distribution even if they were giving enough. No, it isn’t perfect, and it isn’t exactly what Jesus meant, but its far better than the alternative: no government programs and sporadic individual charity.
Now here is an interesting except: “Paulson Barometer
The John Paulson Barometer: This is not a classical indicator, but I’ll go along with the world’s best speculator (up 590% in 2007 and 40% last year). Paulson expects a huge commodity inflation down the pike (below) and I wouldn’t wager against him. Here’s a report on Paulson from Porter Stansberry, whose stunning prediction of the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was featured in Rick’s Picks well ahead of the event. “World’s richest and most successful speculator warns of great inflation,” is how Porter headlined the feature:
“At a recent breakfast, John Paulson, the most successful speculator of the last 20 years, explained exactly how the great inflation will come to pass. Says Paulson: The banks
will resume regular lending – thereby releasing all of the excess money supply into the system – within six to 24 months. Two or three years after that, we will see 12% annual inflation.
“Paulson is recommending investing in gold. He’s already placed more than $4 billion of his firm’s assets in the metal. Why is Paulson building his position so early if he doesn’t expect inflation to kick in for four years? In a word: Scarcity. Paulson notes, of the $200 trillion of investable assets in the world, only $800 billion is gold. You won’t be able to get much of that $200 trillion into gold at any reasonable price. But that won’t stop people from trying.” http://www.kitco.com/ind/akerman/nov062009.html Just a note, Rick Ackerman is about as good a technicians as you will find. Not as good as Frank B but pretty good. I just wish how he comes up with his “hidden pivots.”http://www.kitco.com/ind/akerman/nov062009.html
kash:”Exactly. Which is why I support government taxing wealth and redistributing it in the form of welfare and health care for all. THere is a fundamental standard of living that all US citizens deserve, because we are a wealthy nation, but the wealthiest among us aren’t going to voluntarily give enough or have the means to ensure fair distribution even if they were giving enough.”
Kash, Jesus said to sell it all and give it to the poor. He didn’t say give a little and let the government do the rest. You have no faith in Christ, that He will provide your needs. You are hoarding wealth just like the Greedy Liberal that you are.
You charge everyone that comes to your place of business the same don’t you? Why not charge on a sliding scale? You know, give the poor folks a break. They have a right to the joys of owning a pet.
Funny how place so much faith in a government that made a mess of Katrina, the stimulus, and even the $3 billion Cash for clunkers, not to mention the horror stories of $600 toilet seats, $200 hammers, and Tens of Billions lost every year to Medicare fraud.
I once doubted your intellegence, now I am beginning to doubt your sanity.
Mike: I’ve got things to do.
Things to do, places to go, people to categorize…
Mike: Right now you are asking me to waste my time on an individual that is determined to remain ignorant.
Asking questions in order to find out what you think — not what Doug Tjaden says, but what you think — is an awfully strange way to maintain ignorance. If that were my goal, I’d do far better to assert that I’m right no matter what, to insist that God has appointed me a prophet, to change the subject when people ask Scriptural questions, to dismiss complex questions by categorizing my opponents with simple political terms, to bluff my way through issues by citing figures and events without mentioning why they’re relevant as if any negative circumstances are proof of my stance, or any number of other things. If you’re interested in not wasting time, you’d be much better served by giving information than by, for example, dishing out insults.
I’ll watch the specific video you mentioned; but I can’t remember in the pile of information I’ve already seen where he addressed my question about Ezekiel or why a command from God is more optional than a governmental mandate.
MattF: “Asking questions in order to find out what you think — not what Doug Tjaden says, but what you think”
No sense in reinventing the wheel. I agree with Doug 100%. Read/listen to him first then ask me. I’ve explained it every which way I can, and still you do not understand that when a government or in this case the Fed can print money at will, it devalues every dollar in existence. Gold and silver cannot be printed at will. The labor it takes to produce an ounce of gold is equal to the labor it takes to make a man’s suit. This equation has been around for over 2000 years. I have second cousins that are in middle school that understand this simple concept.
I have been on this issue for over a year and have probably written a book’s worth of information on it. If you do not understand it by now you never will.
If you cannot read what I wrote back when Doug was on the program, January 2009, and see that my predictions regarding the US dollar and gold have been spot on. Gold is now over $1100!! It started the year around $800. That is a 38% rise in the price of the metal. The US dollar started the year around 87 on the USDX. Today it closed at 75.06. That is a 14% decline in the US dollar index. Remember that the Index is made up of a basket of the world’s strongest currencies and all of them are fiat. Gold is up against all the world’s currencies but the USDX measures a currency vs. other currencies.
Taking it a bit further Oil started the year around $42 and today closed at 79.31. Copper $1.50 and today closed at $2.95. Silver started the year at $10 and today closed at $17.57.
Do you notice a trend here? Dollar down everything else up. Why is the dollar down, because the world understands that the US cannot run multitrillion dollar deficits without destroying the value of the currency. Quantitative easing as announce by the Fed last spring means they will print to infinity.
I will ask the game show question, “Are you smarter than a 5th grader?”
MattF:”I’ll watch the specific video you mentioned; but I can’t remember in the pile of information I’ve already seen where he addressed my question about Ezekiel or why a command from God is more optional than a governmental mandate.”
MattF, I send out at least one email per day to people interested in what is happening in the financial markets, the economy, global issues, like Pakistan or China’s buying up assets around the world, and other odds and ends. I provide updates on my technical analysis of the markets, notice that the DOW is powering up which I said it would when many other so called experts were negative. Some of these folks have preserved the gains in the 401ks and have actually added to them over the past few years when other saw their porfolios get hammered down by more than 50%. It takes time for me to sift through all the information so as to keep people up to date. I do not have time to WASTE on intellectual debates which you seem to enjoy. With you it is all an intellectual exercise. For me and my folks it is a matter of financial survival.
In short Ezekiel and S & G or irrelevent to this conversation. Why God destroyed S & G can be debated until the cows come and it won’t mean squat in the real world people must face the next 3 to 5 years. You seem to be a very intellegent person but appear to have absolutely no common sense. My Dad use to tell me that common sense beats out intellect any day of the week. The intellectual will discuss why it is raining, while the man with common sense will just get out of the rain.
Hey Kash, I just referenced an article in my latest email from the World Socialist Website.
Here is the piece:
British government mounts world’s largest bank bailout
By Jean Shaoul
9 November 2009
Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, has just announced the world’s biggest bailout for a single bank in a bid to rescue the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS).
One year after an initial bailout, the government is to put an additional £25.5 billion into RBS, in which it already has a 74 percent stake. In addition it has set aside a further £8 billion in case the bank runs into further trouble, as is widely expected. While RBS insists it will only use this £8 billion in a dire emergency, the annual fee for this sum indicates a high probability of failure.
In order to maintain the fiction that this is still a private and not a publicly owned bank, the government’s additional equity stake, equivalent to a further 12 percent stake, will not have voting rights, allowing RBS to retain its listing on the London Stock Exchange.
Despite the bailout, there is to be no attempt to control the bank’s activities. It will be business as usual as far as proprietary trading is concerned—trading in risky financial instruments. While the government has announced a cap on cash bonuses for top banking executives, this is only a deferment for three years and still leaves numerous ways of circumventing the cap.
The Treasury will also underwrite £282 billion of its toxic assets, less than the £325 billion RBS had applied for in February. This is in return for the bank agreeing to accept a larger proportion of the costs should it prove unable to recover the book value of its assets.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/nov2009/scot-n09.shtml
You see I don’t just limit myself to one side or another. I can find kernals of truth everywhere, even from the devout socialists.
MattF and kash, here is another goody:
As long as the Fed cooperates with Wall Street and it is certain it will, no audit will take place.
Ron Paul: We need to audit the Federal Reserve, now more than ever!
Sunday, November 8, 2009
By NewsWax
Show: Morning Meeting
Channel: MSNBC
Date: 11/05/2009
Transcript:
Dylan Ratigan: The bill no longer audits the Fed. In fact, the legislation gives Congress no control over the Fed’s authority to make monetary policy. That, perhaps, is a worthwhile debate, but it does not require any transparency either in the Fed’s secret agreements with foreign central banks, not to mention the monies that are pushed out to our own banks. Committee chair Barnie Frank told his constituents back in August that Congressman Paul’s plan would pass, likely in October. For the record it is now November and there is still no vote and if there were to be a vote it would be on a gutted version of the bill! Thirteen committee Democrats currently signed on to this shell of the Fed audit bill and now we’ll wait up and see if they’ll stand up for real change or just push through more false solutions in Washington DC.
Joining us now is Republican Committee member Ron Paul who originally proposed Audit the Fed. He will present and amendment before the full vote to get real reform back into the legislation. Chrystia Freeland is also here.
Representative Paul, in brief explain to all of us why you think it is so important that the American taxpayer be able to see what is going on inside of the Federal Reserve? Why does that matter, why should we care so much?
Ron Paul: It’s because everybody uses dollars as our currency and it’s an international currency. So it is very, very important, and yet it’s managed by a small group of people really run by the Federal Reserve board chairman and they decide each and every day how much money there should be printed that week and what the interest rates should be. So they are the central economic planners. And since they can create credit out of thin air and take care of their friends and buddies, which means that the burden is placed on the taxpayers… not directly with a tax but indirectly by devaluing their money. And that means that every time a price goes up, whether it’s medical care cost or education, you’re really paying a tax.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/newswax/2009/11/08/ron-paul-we-need-to-audit-the-federal-reserve-now-more-than-ever/
Now why do you suppose the Fed is resisting an audit? HMMMM Why won’t Congress pass legislation that requires such an audit? HMMMMMM
Anyone that supports this system is completely out of their minds.
No comment on the article in #92? HMMMMM……ignore what displeases you, for knowledge that contradicts one’s preconceived notions can be quite uncomfortable. The so called enlightened liberals are of this mindset.
The issue in this debate is health care and whether or not the government should assist people in attaining it. While it is a noble cause, government has proven incapable of running such programs efficiently. What’s more the country is broke…..Broke….BROKE.
Neither kash nor MattF, have responded to the above article. To be fair MattF, may be spending time on Doug’s website and learning something about what the Bible says regarding our monetary system. Kash, I am sure will ignore it since she does not have a clue regarding anything dealing with money and economics. Anyone that believes a currency collapse brings on deflation, is………. I don’t have a word to describe such an idiotic notion.
I have been supporting Ron Paul’s proposed full audit of the Fed ever since he presented it. I am not surprised that the Fed would fight such a law. I am not surprised that the Fed would hire an ex-Enron lobbyist to represent them. Imagine that, the Fed now has a lobbyist.
Mike
I get it. I really do. The economy is collapsing. The dollar is losing value. People are unemployed. Gold is the only true historical storer of value, and it’s in the Bible. America is becoming ’socialized’ the government is ‘evil’, the bankers want to ‘own’ and ‘control’ everything. Doug Tjaden is a prophet. I get it.
What I really want to know is: What are you doing about it? Other than posting on these forums all the time for the benefit of the 4 or 5 people that may read it daily, what are you doing?
Are you buying gold and silver? Are you buying arable land? Do you invest in foreign equities? Are you stockpiling weapons and ammunition for the coming apocalypse?
I know i’m being a bit snarky, but my question is genuine. Without all the ‘you’re an idiot because you don’t agree with me’ rhetoric, and in your own words, explain to me what you think people can be doing at the individual level in the midst of the ‘current crisis.’
abc: “What I really want to know is: What are you doing about it? Other than posting on these forums all the time for the benefit of the 4 or 5 people that may read it daily, what are you doing?
Are you buying gold and silver? Are you buying arable land? Do you invest in foreign equities? Are you stockpiling weapons and ammunition for the coming apocalypse?”
Good question which is all fully answered in the emails I send out to “my folks.” BTW, I send them out free of charge although I have been told that I could charge for them; starting my own newsletter. I guess I could but, I won’t as God has laid this on my heart and He is the one that gave me the skill to do what I do. Like I said I am a technician at heart but always consider other aspects of technical and fundamental analysis. My bread and butter is the Lowry Report, which by the way is not a cheap subscription at $1200 per year. While I cannot give out the details of the information these folks provide ($95,000 fine) jI can give summaries of their data regarding # of stocks above their 10 day moving average, buying power and selling pressure. I just wish they had a report that covered commodities; alas they do not.
Now as to what I am personally doing. I am invested completely out of the US dollar. All of my holdings are outside the US or have no connection to the USD. 1/3 is in precious metals, 1/3 is in commodities (mostly food, oil, natural gas and uranium), and 1/3 is diversified in dividend paying others and various amounts of cash depending on market conditions. For example, I raised a great deal of cash in the second half 2007 and into 2008 as I suspected a crash was coming. Bythe first week in March I began recommitting my cash to the market. In June I committed the rest of my cash to the gold sector as I suspected a big move was coming in gold.
So where am I invested. I hesitate to list my all my positions as I do not want people to do what I do without having the means of tracking what they are doing. I have made mistakes, but am ready to correct them and take the loss. Most people are unable to take losses and thus wind up riding out losing positions. Knowing how to take losses while staying in the game is critical to success. I will provide some idea of where I am putting my money.
My precious metals positions are as follows and in order of importance. 1. An allocation of gold and silver bullion in my possession. I hold mostly silver now as I believe it will outperform gold. Buy only from a reputable dealer as there are fake coins out there. Stay away from collector coins unless you know the market. I don’t so I stick to bullion coins.
2. I also own shares in a bullion bank that holds both gold and silver. The symbol is CEF, which stands for the Central Fund of Canada. I trade it from time to time and use the profits to buy physical bullion. I distrust the two bullion ETFs, SLV and GLD.
3. My Mining stocks are divided into 3 categories. Senior producers, mid-tier / junior producers, and exploration companies. In the seniors the Gold mining ETF, GDX is a good vehicle as I can also trade it. Right now I also like the senior silver companies such as Silver Standard (SSRI) and Pan American Silver (PAAS). In the midteirs I own two great companies Minefinders (MFN) and Silvercorp (SVM). I am expecting a merger of Alamos, Gammon, and Minefinders into a senior producer sometime in the very near future. Since March I have been building a portfolio (no more than 15% of all my allocation to precious metals) to some high quality Canadian junior exploration companies and on up and coming Royalty Trust. These are extremely speculative and very volatile. My game plan is to sell 1/2 of my position on a double and keep the rest as free money. I will give you one that I have built a position in that is now a small producer and sells 10% of their production to the public. The company is First Majestic (FR on the Toronto exchange.) I also hold Endeavor Financial (EDV on the Toronto exchange), which holds a portfolio of junior exploration companies in the natural resource sector. I am also waiting a new ETF which will consist primarily of Junior exploration companies. It will trade under the symbol GDXJ. NOTE: I SUGGEST ANYONE INTERESTED IN THE MINING SECTOR BE VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT THE RISKS IN MINING OR JUST GO OUT AND BY A GOOD PRECIOUS METALS MUTUAL FUND AND ADD TO IT PERIODICALLY. Bullion should be bought on a regular basis although the time for accumulation over time is drawing to a close. I really do fear that we may one day wake up to a sudden dollar devaluation. I have folks that have been accumulating precious metals for 8 years. They rest quite well at night knowing that if the worse were to happen they would have protected their wealth.
In the natural resource sector, I will just say that in oil and natural gas I have positions in the Canadian Energy trusts. They have been paying out fat dividends and I have almost recouped my intial investment through dividend and selling about 1/4 of my original position. I generally take the money and allocate it to other investments. There are some excellent ETFs in that sector and like to trade USO, the crude oil shares. IEZ is the symbol for oil service companies and was a screaming buy when the market crashed. My favorite and only food stock is also an ETF, which trades under the symbol MOO.
In my OTHER category I hold some Certificates of Deposit through Everbank in Canadian currency and Australian Currency. I also trade two funds that represent foreign bonds, FAX and GIM. They offer sound dividends and as a technicians I have periodically sold shares then repurchased at a lower price, but one can just dollar cost average into them and make some good money. Right now I plan on no longer trading them but just holding on tight as I suspect the US dollar will continue to weaken.
I MUST WARN YOU HOWEVER, THAT YOU SHOULD FIRST BECOME KNOWLEDGEABLE OR USE MUTUAL FUNDS IN THE AREAS WHERE THERE WILL BE GROWTH. There are many ways to diversify, but one should be diversified where the Secular Bull is running not where the Secular Bear is. The US stock market can go to 100,000 but if the dollar loses another 75% of its value what good is DOW 100,000? I suppose better than cash.
So there you have it, as specific as I can be. The key is to get out of dollar assets.
abc: ” know i’m being a bit snarky, but my question is genuine. Without all the ‘you’re an idiot because you don’t agree with me’ rhetoric, and in your own words, explain to me what you think people can be doing at the individual level in the midst of the ‘current crisis.’”
If nothing else have a minimum of 40% of your assets in gold and silver bullion. That is if all of your current assets are in cash and cash equivilents, such as Certificates of Deposit, and US government bonds, US residential real estate (except for farm land which I believe will be more valuable in the years ahead and one can lease the land out to a tenant farmer, but one must have at least 50 acres to make this possible), and US commercial real estate.
abc
First he’ll probably ask the manager at Dairy Queen to give him a raise.
abc, one more warning, all bullion must be held by you. Do not allow any entity to hold it for you. The risk in your holding the bullion is theft so I suggest a safety deposit box for all precious metals.
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, is coming crime wave which is already beginning to emerge. With gold trading above $1000, theives will target people with gold and just about everyone has a few pieces of gold jewelry. Women should not go out wearing gold jewelry, not in these days. All gold jewelry should be put in a safety deposit box and taken out of the home. I am not saying this because one should fear the theft of jewelry; one should fear that an armed thief will kill you to get the jewelry. If there is none available to steal, a thief might just leave. If he finds jewelry in the home, he may decide not to leave witnesses. This actually happened to a man in South Florida. He went shopping wearing his jewelry and the thieves followed him home. There they stole his jewelry and to prevent him from identifying them, they killed him.
Those of you that think this is not possible consider the series of thefts at cemetaries when copper prices hit $4. Thieves actually stole copper vases and plaques at burial plots to sell them as scrap. Home builders had to guard their construction sites to prevent thieves from stealing the copper wiring. What do you think thieves will do with gold at $1100 per ounce.
abc:” Are you stockpiling weapons and ammunition for the coming apocalypse?”
Stock piling weapons is not necessary. A good pump 12 guage, loaded with #1 buck or buck or bigger should do the trick for home defense and a good pistol in the 9 mm class or bigger should do for on the road. I do, however suggest that one get professional training in firearms and at least once a month go to the range to stay familiar with them. If you have little ones around the house you cannot be too cautious to prevent accidents.
If one is uncomfortable with firearms then a home security system is advised. Most of all do not keep valuables such as jewelry in the home. We are entering very dangerous times.
BTW, I’ve already asked for a raise at the Dairy Queen I work for
. No deal, my hours have been cut.
“You charge everyone that comes to your place of business the same don’t you? Why not charge on a sliding scale?” Actually, I do charge a sliding scale and discount services for those on medicaid. I also do a lot of pro bono work.
As far as your article, I haven’t had time to read it. I probably will get to it eventually, but I work full time, volunteer a lot, have two young children, and I like to read books sometimes too.
Ok, I scanned through #92. I am totally in favor of transparency in the Fed. You can be for auditing and regulating something without being for abolishing it. I always beleive sunlight is the best disinfectant for government AND private entities.
Mike re 77: “Even the dumbest bulb in the pile would recognize your argument as not just faulty but ludicrous.” I was being ironic. Obviously a wasted effort.
Mike: re 78: You know what? Liberals as a group, conservatives as a group, moderates as a group, and libertarians as a group are made up of individuals. Some of those individuals are very generous, and some are tight fisted greedy misers, and some are in between. The bottom line is that voluntary donations to various charities will never be enough in amount OR equitable distribution to provide the social safety net that is the hallmark of a humane society. Not to mention the roads and bridges of said society would be a mess.
Mike: ignore what displeases you, for knowledge that contradicts one’s preconceived notions can be quite uncomfortable.
What, such as the notion that both Kash and I have expressed displeasure at the current system and its atrocities?
Exactly what reality is it that pretends that any disagreement with your ideas denotes approval of the current system and/or the reprehensible actions of people who have manipulated it to their ends? What insanity maintains that anyone trying to be decent would approve of such things?
And what of the many questions you have flatly refused to answer or have simply ignored?
There’s a beam in your eye, there, old man.
kash: “Actually, I do charge a sliding scale and discount services for those on medicaid. I also do a lot of pro bono work.”
Congratulations at least you are not a hypocrite like so many liberal leaders.
My emails are free and it does not matter to me if the person is rich or poor. One of the people that get my emails is a financial advisor, and when I began warning of stock market crash, he suggested to his clients that they take 25% to 50% off the table. Some did and some didn’t. One individual was so angry with the advice as the DOW did climb from about 13500 to over 14,000 that the client withdrew his account and placed it with another advisor. That particular client so I am told lost over half his money as the market crashed. He did not tell me if any of his clients put money back into the market, when I called the Buy Signal in March of this year. He has also suggested allocations to emerging markets, commodities, and precious metals. I have not asked him how his folks are doing.
The way I see it, I have plenty and do not need more. I would rather see people protect themselves from the storms that are now here than make a few extra bucks. My pleasure comes from a fellow brother that lost his job and had to transfer his 401k to a self directed account, and put money into precious metals, commodity stocks that pay fat dividends, and a few foreign currencies and is now way ahead of the game compared to where he would have been. He eventually found another job but does not have a retirement account with his new employer. His portfolio is growing nicely and he has avoided the market down turn.
So if I were the greedy individual you claim that I am, that is only interested is accumulating as much gold and silver as possible, another Silas Marner, why would I give away the knowledge it has taken me over 15 years to accumulate?
I’ve told my plans as to what I am to do with any wealth God has entrusted to me. I am a steward of His provision, and as a good and faithful servant, I will not just stand by and watch a corrupt system steal away the money I have entrusted to me. It is after all God’s and not mine.
MattF: “What, such as the notion that both Kash and I have expressed displeasure at the current system and its atrocities?”
There is a difference between what displeases and what we oppose. If you see nothing wrong with our monetary system or a government that will provide housing, food, retirement, health care, etc. for everyone by taking from some to give to others; then you support the very system that will bring the entire nation down.
MattF: “And what of the many questions you have flatly refused to answer or have simply ignored?”
I’ve told you that I do not have time to engage in theoretical garbage. I have gladly answered all questions, provided statistic and links to the sites where I get them, ad nauseum.
abc, asked me a series of very direst commonsense questions and I answered him directly. Go back and read my response to him. MattF, you remind me of a pointy head intellectual that needs someone to tie his shoe laces. All you want to do is engage in philosophical discussion that lead to nowhere. We could discuss S&G into eternity and never resolve an issue. It all becomes a matter of opinion with no way to prove either side.
My proof will come with my predictions. The economy is not going to get better it is going to get worse. GDP growth was a result of government spending. The government spends money and GDP will rise, but the economy will only get worse. Government does not produce wealth it consumes it. A nation must produce in order to consume. This use to be the case with the US but no more. Our balance of payment deficits prove it. The last jobs report showed growth in health care and government employment, neither of which produce anything. Both consume wealth. YOU DON’T or DO NOT want to get it.
So go take you theoretical / philosophical questons to some who can wax eloquently with you. I don’t have time. I only have time for those that want to deal with the practical. When the Titanic hit the iceberg, it was time to get practicle not time to re-arrange the deck chairs or discuss who is the best chef on board.
kash: “The bottom line is that voluntary donations to various charities will never be enough in amount OR equitable distribution to provide the social safety net that is the hallmark of a humane society. Not to mention the roads and bridges of said society would be a mess.”
A baseless claim. I gave you the stats on some of the major leaders of the liberal left that are tight with their money but very free to give away what does not belong to them. You trust a government that will double the debt in the next 8 years to $25 trillion. Interest on that debt will be $250 billion for every percentage point we have to pay. It is estimated that interest on the debt will consume more than half of the government’s revenues from taxes. With drain on available capital, how will the nation fund even its basic programs?
I’ve asked this before and all I get is, we will grow our way out of this debt? You are the only that seems to believe this is possible. You are dreaming? Government is already saying that next year we will see even higher unemployment. Seven million more houses will be foreclosed and fully 50% of all mortgages will be underwater by 2012.
Here I go plowing the same old ground with you. These are the cold hard facts you choose to ignore because they don’t agree with your preconceived notions of the world we live in…..make that the nation we live in. This is what the statists have brought us. We are where we are because of government and yet you still pump out the propaganda bull of “We must take care of those who can’t take of themselves. We must all share and play nice. The government’s job is to take care of the people. It is the Nanny state. It is this Nanny state run by the banksters that have led to this crisis and is in the process of bankrupting the nation. Do you have any idea of what it means for a nation to ge bankrupt? Apparently not, but you will very very soon, within the next 3 to 5 years. Maybe sooner.
kash: “As far as your article, I haven’t had time to read it. I probably will get to it eventually, but I work full time, volunteer a lot, have two young children, and I like to read books sometimes too.”
Try reading Peter Schiff’s “Crash Proof” or “Crash Proof version 2″. The Creature from Jekyll Island is pretty good.
You have 2 young children!! Why are you so willing to have them enslaved by a government that has no heart…no soul. Are you so liberal that you do not care the type of nation your children inherit, or the government they are forced to live under? I guess you are. Your politics seem to be more important than your very children…..more important than the very God you worship. Amazing.
Read the following two articles. They say it all, from bankster greed (billions in bonuses are the product of trillions in OTC derivatives which they continue to manufacture) to expectations by some learned individuals, namely N. Ferguson of the coming demise of the dollar. This is what a fiat monetary system has brought us. It is what has taken place over the centuries every time man debased the money supply.
“Wall Street Bonuses Rise as Big 3 May Pay $30 Billion
By Michael J. Moore and Ian Katz
Nov. 9 (Bloomberg) — Goldman Sachs Group Inc., Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s investment bank, survivors of the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression, are set to pay record bonuses this year.
The firms — the three biggest banks to exit the Troubled Asset Relief Program — will hand out $29.7 billion in bonuses, according to analysts’ estimates. That’s up 60 percent from last year and more than the previous high of $26.8 billion in 2007. The money, split among 119,000 employees, equals $250,400 each, almost five times the $50,303 median household income in the U.S. last year, data compiled by Bloomberg show.
The three will award more in stock and defer more cash payments under pressure from regulators to tie pay to long-term results, compensation experts said. They may still face public wrath over the size of bonuses after the government injected capital into all the major financial institutions following Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.’s collapse in September 2008.
“Wall Street is beginning to resemble Clark Gable as Rhett Butler in the film ‘Gone With the Wind’: ‘Quite frankly, my dear, I don’t give a damn,’” Paul Hodgson, a senior research associate on compensation at the Portland, Maine-based Corporate Library, said in an e-mail. “It doesn’t seem as if even political threat, disastrous PR, envy, rising unemployment rates and home repossessions is enough to get any of these people to refuse the bonuses they have ‘earned.’”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=au.pavWlxfZg&pos=11
“Is the Dollar Dying a Slow Death?
By MICHAEL SCHUMAN / HONG KONG
Friday, Nov. 06, 2009
The U.S. dollar seems to have as many lives as a cat. Even before 2008’s financial crisis, as the dollar slumped against other major currencies, countless pundits and economists predicted its demise as the global economy’s No. 1 currency. The doomsayers seemed vindicated when the U.S. economy descended into the worst recession since the 1930s, with its financial sector in tatters. How could an already weakened greenback maintain its value as American economic prowess withered? But then — surprise! — investors around the world decided the good old greenback was a safe haven in a time of great uncertainty. The dollar was resurrected, reversing years of slow decline.
That strength turned out to be temporary. A ballooning U.S. budget deficit and escalating government debt has made the dollar currency non grata in many quarters once again. An index that measures the greenback’s value against a basket of major currencies, including the euro and yen, has fallen about 15% from a three-year high reached in March and is now hovering near a 14-month low. Economists and analysts expect the dollar to lose a lot more ground. Daisuke Uno, chief strategist at Japan’s banking giant Sumitomo Mitsui, believes the Japanese currency could strengthen to 50 yen to a dollar by 2011 (from around 90 today) due to continued weakness in the U.S. economy. Harvard historian Niall Ferguson says the dollar could slide by as much as 20% on a trade-weighted basis over the next 12 months. The process may be protracted, he argues, but the dollar is dying. In 10 years’ time, he said in October, “it won’t be such a dollar-dominated world. I’m sure of that.”
So has the dollar finally used up the last of its nine lives? There are worrying signs that the world is losing its appetite for dollars. The International Monetary Fund announced on Nov. 2 it was selling 200 metric tons of gold to India’s central bank for $6.7 billion. News of the purchase sent gold prices to an all-time high. The move was widely seen as part of an effort by central banks around the world to diversify their extensive U.S. dollar holdings. Steven Englander, chief U.S. currency strategist at Barclays Capital in New York City, figures that in the second quarter, dollars accounted for only 37% of new reserves accumulated by central banks worldwide. That’s the lowest proportion on record for any quarter during which reserves increased significantly. At a time when many central banks are boosting their reserves, they are choosing to buy euro and yen instead. “Central banks are doing more than talking about reducing the concentration of [the U.S. dollar] in their reserve portfolios. They are actually acting on their statements,” Englander wrote in an October report.”
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1935868,00.html
“Why are you so willing to have them enslaved by a government that has no heart…no soul.” Well, first of all, I don’t expect my government to have a heart or a soul, just the people I elect to represent me. Second of all, I don’t think that paying taxes is the same thing as enslavement, not by a long shot.
“Your politics seem to be more important than your very children.” As usual, a mean and baseless thing to say. My politics are what they are because I do care about my children, and my neighbor’s children, and the inner city children, and the immigrant children, and the Iraqui children, and yes, even your children, Mike. I want them to live in a world where tax money is spent of their education, and the health care, and things that enrich their lives like infrastructure and the arts and libraries and regulation of food and drugs. You may disagree about whether my politics will bring about those things, but to accuse me of not caring about children just because I disagree that getting government out of my life will someone equal improvement for everyone is your typical all-or-nothing approach to your personal doctrine of economic and theological salvation.
“I gave you the stats on some of the major leaders of the liberal left that are tight with their money but very free to give away what does not belong to them.” When I take specific examples of people who are on “your side” who did stupid or mean or corrupt things, you claim it is invalid. When you do it, it is some sort of sweeping indightment of my entire existence. Hmmm.
Mike
I appreciate the detailed response. If what you say is true, it’s refreshing to hear someone who is willing to ‘put their money where their mouth is’ so to speak.
Mike: “If you see nothing wrong with our monetary system or a government that will provide housing, food, retirement, health care, etc. for everyone by taking from some to give to others; then you support the very system that will bring the entire nation down.” That is indeed the crux of the matter and why I could read all the same things that you do and absolutely still disagree. I think our monetary system has given us the most stable sixty years in the history of any modern economy. THe fact that we grew complacent and are now having to readjust is a reflection of our greed and taking for granted that the other world economies wouldn’t eventually learn to get a piece of our prosperity. I think our welfare system guarantees a certain standard of living below which families are rarely forced to drop into homelessness and starvation (although there are some who still fall through the cracks, and increasingly health care costs are what drive them there). Because of that, our political system has remained relatively stable. Revolutions are usually driven by desperation and starvation, so it behooves a country to take care of “the least of these” so that dissension -though important in the democratic process – remains in the sphere of punditry, demonstration, and elections, rather than military coups or religiously driven violent overthrows as happened to less stable countries often enough in the 20th century. The free market is a wonderful thing that has driven this country’’s unprecedented economic growth since its birth in the late 18th century. But also what has made this country strong is a system of checks and balances both in the halls of power (executive, legislative, judicial branches) AND in the “free market” (anti-trust laws, unions, banking regulation, environmental standards) that has saved us from the increasing gap between rich and poor that always leads to social and then political strife. Some of those checks and balances got thrown under the bus starting in the 80s with Reagan and continuing under Clinton and both Bush’s, and I think we are paying the price. I firmly believe that this country will readjust, and stay true to the core value of a stong middle class, a protected lower class, and an increased tax burden on the wealthiest…because they can afford it. And it is this stable, strong country that gave them a haven in which to develop their wealth, and thus they are duty-bound to give some of it back to ensure the continued strength of the country. That is not socialism, that is common sense, to my way of thinking. In the past 20 years we got away from that common sense and created loophole after loophole for those with ridiculous wealth (whether Democrat or Republican) to pay less and less taxes, even while we (except under Clinton) increased spending. You ask me how to get out of debt? Certainly not by denying people the right to health care which will eventually deny them the ability to work. I don’t think we can count on the economy growing like it used to, either, because other countries have caught on to the “American way” and aren’t going to let us have the lion share of the global market anymore. We need to invest in our own country, green power grid would be a way to start. It creates jobs which creates more tax payers. And yeah, the rich are going to see their taxes go up, not to 1950s levels but maybe late 1970s levels, at least until we get the deficity paid down. And there will probably be some reciprocal cancelling of debts at the global level. China doesn’t want us to go bankrupt any more than we want China to go bankrupt. One of the upsides of globalisation is that everyone depends on each other to some extent.
Finally, there is a difference to advising people to buy gold (which is an investment strategy which makes sense at times) and claiming that gold is the only moral choice. You mix those two positions up in your posts repeatedly. Many of the people you quote who are bullish on gold right do not necessarily want to go back to a gold backed economy, not the least of which is that it would bring gold prices down!
kash: “Well, first of all, I don’t expect my government to have a heart or a soul, just the people I elect to represent me.” You mean the same folks that bailout the banks that brought on this crisis. You mean the same people that do not want the Fed audited. You mean the same people that drove from office Brooksley Born, who tried to stop the massive production of OTC derivatives which have brought on this crisis. You mean the good hearted politicians of both political parties that have robbed the Social Security Trust fund and Federal Employees Retirement to pay for $200 hammers and give all sort of goodies to supporters.
Enslavement comes when you are not paid for your labor. Most Americans with savings will see their savings evaporate in purchasing power as the Fed continues with its printing. I cannot believe you do not understand this. You continue to see things the way you want them to be rather than the way they really are. If you cannot see the misery caused by a government out of control, then there is nothing I can tell you. STOP BEING A USEFUL IDIOT. You are supporting the very people that will impoverish your family, your neighbors, and probably force your church to close its doors if it cannot meet debt obligations. I pray it has no debt.
kash: ‘I think our monetary system has given us the most stable sixty years in the history of any modern economy. ”
See you are deliberately ignorant and ignore anything that does not agree with your preconceived notions. How many times have I stated that the current US dollar came into existence on August 14, 1971. It is not 60 years old it is but 38 years old, which is the average life span of fiat currencies. Up until 1971 the US dollar was convertible to gold. Nixon closed the gold window and as such put the world on a fiat system.
Why are you so dense? I’ve commented on this numerous times, explaining that had it not been for Paul Volcker, the US dollar would have collapsed in the early 80s.
kash, I have also stated that if we wanted a welfare state and the people voted for it then I would agree, but only IF WE PAID FOR IT. You seem to think that taxes are what pay for all the goodies provided by government. If so then why does the US run annual deficits. We have been borrowing and by printing the money we need to pay for social programs and military operations. YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE. YOU LIVE IN YOUR OWN POLLYANNA WORLD…. a world that will soon come crashing down on your head.
Have you called your Congressman and told them to support the legislation to audit the Fed? HMMMM Do you even believe the Fed should be audited? Probably not because if it were the whole Ponzi scheme would unwind like a cheap suit….of course it is going to do that anyway. But you don’t care. The only thing you care about is your own pios self. You feel so good and righteous because of your misplaced compassion. You believe it is the government right to take whatever it deems necessary from anyone it wants to take from. You believe it perfectly OK to debase the money no matter how many people are hurt. You believe that the bankster deserve their Billions in bonus for destroying the economy of the nation. You believe or support these things not because they are beneficial or good but because it makes you feel so righteous in your compassion.
kash, after reading all that you wrote, the only thing I can say is “your economic knowlege does not even come up to that of a 10 year old. You babble on like you are reading from an elementary school text on economics. You claim that China does not want the US to go broke. The Chinese know it, the Brazilians know it, the Saudis know it….THE US IS ALREADY BROKE. They know we are going to default on our debt. You start talking about growing our way out of it through green technology…..are you insane….yes. Even the most optimistic of experts in the field believe that green technology will represent a tiny portion of our GDP 10 years from now.
Have you any idea what metals are absolutely critical to ALL GREEN TECHNOLOGIES. I bet you don’t. I also bet you don’t know what the position is of the US government when it comes to those metals. I bet you do not know the outlook after 2013 regarding those very critical metals. I BET ALL YOU KNOW IS WHAT YOU READ ON THE LIBERAL BLOGS.
“I BET ALL YOU KNOW IS WHAT YOU READ ON THE LIBERAL BLOGS.” Oooh, damning words indeed.
“You believe that the bankster deserve their Billions in bonus for destroying the economy of the nation.” Except that you ignore the fact that I did not support TARP bailouts. I wanted to take the money from the big bankers and give it to the small bankers and the “people” who were in danger of losing their homes. You know, Mike, if you spent half the time fighting the “bad guys” as you spend pilloring me on this blog, you might accomplish something.
kash: “China doesn’t want us to go bankrupt any more than we want China to go bankrupt. One of the upsides of globalisation is that everyone depends on each other to some extent.” This statement just shows that all you do is swallow the mainstream / liberal / financial media propaganda. China does not need the US, the US needs China. What you know about global economics could not fill a 1 ounce glass.
True intellegence is displayed when one recognizes what they know and what they don’t know. You will notice that I do not engage in conversations about evolution. I just do not know enough about the topic. I do defend the Bible as the word of God and have provided extensive proof to the like of Bernie. Recently I call Gurgus on his faulty logic when he compared the Muslim murderer to Christians. He violated the Law of the Excluded Middle.
You on the other hand seem to be a self proclaimed expert on nearly every subject. I know economics and I know my monetary history. You argued with Doug regarding our monetary system, never accepted anything the man said, and yet this man has spent years studying the subject and has written two books. It must be nice to be as brilliant as you are and know everything. Just one question. Why do you make such rediculous / ludicrous / insane / statements, such as a collapsing currency brings on deflation!! HA, HA, HA, HA. or better yet, “The US will grow out of its deficit.” Yep, $75 trillion and counting…we’ll grow out of it. In your dreams, which will be our and your children’s nightmares.
”
The Chinese need us” is as dumb as it gets. They work themselves to the bone manufacturing goods that are then exchanged for little pieces of paper we create out of thin air at zero cost. Boy those Chinese really need us.
Kash, are you really this stupid. I mean everytime I promise I will not call you stupid, you make the dumbest comments I have ever heard. The infomation you provide sounds like something out of a chapter from middle school social studies text book.
kash: “Except that you ignore the fact that I did not support TARP bailouts. I wanted to take the money from the big bankers and give it to the small bankers and the “people” who were in danger of losing their homes.”
Sorry kash, the system is designed to do exactly what it did. There is no too small to fail policy. Now listen, the policy is “TOO BIG TO FAIL.” These bailouts have been going on for decades…there is nothing new about them. You make it sound like something that just started. Don’t you get it. It does not matter what you or I want. Most Americans were against the bailouts and the bailouts went through anyway. We don’t run the country the banks do. And with every bank that closes, even the big ones, the wealth and power is concentrated in fewer and fewer institutions. Every bank that closes is one less competitor for the big banks that survive, and it is the big banks that run the show.
This is why the Fed does not want to be audited. It does not want transparency. Do you really think that because you write your Congressman or Senator regarding these financial decisions they are going to listen to you or their constituents. Thus far we have been ignored. IT IS THE BANKS THAT HAVE INHERITED THE EARTH. This is what your beloved Fiat dollars have wrought upon this nation. The banks and the corporations that surround them are gaining power while we are being enslaved. All you have to do is open your eyes.
kash: “You know, Mike, if you spent half the time fighting the “bad guys” as you spend pilloring me on this blog, you might accomplish something.”
The only way to win this battle is change the system. To change the system the American people must unite and demand a return to honest money. That would go along way to solving a great many problems, but it would in the short run cause severe pain. The path we are now is sure to lead to destruction, and long term misery.
“You claim that China does not want the US to go broke.” I claim it, China claims it, most people that understand international finance claim it. As you have mentioned, China is Washington’s biggest foreign creditor, with an estimated $1 trillion in U.S. government debt. A weaker dollar would erode the value of those assets. Not to mention a weaker dollar makes American exports cheaper compared to Chinese exports.
kash: “I claim it, China claims it, most people that understand international finance claim it. As you have mentioned, China is Washington’s biggest foreign creditor, with an estimated $1 trillion in U.S. government debt. A weaker dollar would erode the value of those assets. Not to mention a weaker dollar makes American exports cheaper compared to Chinese exports.”
You keep making stupid statements. China has pegged the Yuan to the USD so we have no competitive advantage there.
Have you not kept up with current events or are you still living in the 1990s. China is now diversifying out of the US dollar. They are using their dollars to buy up natural resources across the planet, including the US. Recall their attempt a few years ago to buy Unocal, that was thwarted by the US government. Recently they have offered a price for Volvo. My guess is that soon they will be buying up US real estate. Then all those dollars will start coming home adding to an already inflated currency.
China has also signed trade agreements with Brazil that by passes the US dollar. They are doing the same with their Asian trading partners. Trade with the US now represents a smaller percentage of China’s trade with us…I think it is now less than 15%.
You live in a make believe world, which by definition makes you crazy. As for a cheaper dollar helping our balance of trade, the US dollar has fallen from 120 to 75 on the USDX, and still we import billions more than we export.
BTW, You have not answered my question regarding the necessary metals for all green technology, and the US position on those metals. You can’t answer it because the information is not on your Liberal websites. All they do is spew out the liberal garbage of Clean, Green Energy that will just miraculously appear out of nowhere.
Cheaper for other countries to buy our goods compared to China’s and other countries, Mike. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/28/AR2009102802347.html
The U.S. dollar has taken a steep tumble — down 18 percent against the euro in the past 12 months, and more than 40 percent against the South African rand and Australian dollar — as U.S. officials have effectively diluted its value, printing money and adopting near-zero interest rates, to jump-start the economy.
The moves have sharply improved the U.S. trade deficit, as everything from American-made cellular phones to furniture suddenly become more competitive both at home and overseas while giving foreign manufacturers more incentives to create jobs in the United States. Analysts say the severity of the downturn in the United States as well as the unemployment rate would be markedly worse without the weak dollar.
Yet it has had just the opposite effect on German washing machines and Japanese cars, making them less price competitive in the world’s largest market — the United States. Moreover, those same Japanese cars and German washing machines are also less competitive in the world’s fastest growing market — China. That’s because the Chinese yuan, still closely pegged to the value of the U.S. currency, has fallen just as much as the dollar on world markets, serving up a double whammy to countries with fast-appreciating currencies like the euro. It also means that China, the country that enjoys the single biggest trade surplus with the United States, has actually seen that surplus grow during the recession.
I’ll get back to you on green technology later, Mike, but I do know that just subsidizing putting up solar panels and wind turbines the way we have been subsidizing the oil industry is a start. You’re just so negative. I am glad to be a Pollyanna, to have faith in my God and my country. Naysayers like you were against every major ingenuity this country has ever created, from Independence from Britain to safety belts in cars to the race to the moon to the interstate highway system to anything else that once seemed too expensive, too ambitious, or (in the case of seat belts) too restrictive. Look. Buy your gold. I hope it keeps going up. Keep railing against the Federal Reserve. Meanwhile, the rest of us (Americans and the rest of the forward-thinking world) will be trying to fix what is broken, preserve what is working, and invent the new technology and industry of tomorrow. Good night, and good luck.
kash: “Buy your gold. I hope it keeps going up.”
Now that’s interesting, I keep hoping it doesn’t. Rising gold is not good. Another example that you just don’t get it. When gold began its run the USDX was at 120 and gold was at $255. Today the USDX is at 75 and gold is at $1105. Do you see a pattern here? Oil started at $17 when the USDX was at 120 and today oil is right under $80. Do you see a pattern here.
What do you think life will be like here when gold hits my $1700 – $2000 target, then goes on to Alf Fields peak of $3500, and from their impulses on up to Martin Armstrong’s $5000? Are you really hoping for this? I’m not.
Kash: “I’ll get back to you on green technology later, Mike, but I do know that just subsidizing putting up solar panels and wind turbines the way we have been subsidizing the oil industry is a start. You’re just so negative.” Ever tried fishing in the Sahara Dessert? How about Sun Bathing in December at the North Pole? Why not try climbing to the top of Mt. Everest in shorts and tennis shoes? What you are proposing for green technology is the same as the questions I have asked. Unless something changes the only people developing Green Technology will be China. I know why but you do not have a clue. It has nothing to do with being negative it is knowing that Climbing Mt. Everest in shorts and tennis shoes just won’t work, no matter how optimistic you are.
Kash, you are nothing but a walking bumper sticker; cute phrases full of hope but backed up by and empty mind.
kash: “The U.S. dollar has taken a steep tumble — down 18 percent against the euro in the past 12 months, and more than 40 percent against the South African rand and Australian dollar — as U.S. officials have effectively diluted its value, printing money and adopting near-zero interest rates, to jump-start the economy.
The moves have sharply improved the U.S. trade deficit, as everything from American-made cellular phones to furniture suddenly become more competitive both at home and overseas while giving foreign manufacturers more incentives to create jobs in the United States. Analysts say the severity of the downturn in the United States as well as the unemployment rate would be markedly worse without the weak dollar.”
This is Wall Street pap. If devaluing your currency was the road to economic competitiveness, then why have we lost so many manufacturing jobs as the US dollar declined? If devaluing a nations currency was the road to economic growth then why is Zimbabwe suffering 80% unemployment?
Right now the world is engaged in a currency race to the bottom, but at some point nations will realize that it is not in their best interest to do so. A devalued currency means higher inflation, which brings with it, it’s own set of problems. China is fully aware of this which is why with their surplus they have begun issueing bonds. Why if they have trillions in the bank would China want to issue bonds. They are also working towards establishing a Commodity Bourse. Keep it up kash…..keep the faith…..the faith of the devout statist….do not for a minute stop being the Useful idiot that you are.
kash, looks like your prayer / wishes are being fulfilled. This morning gold is at $1114 and the USDX is now at a new 52 week low at 74.87. Another one of my predictions coming regretably true, “this is going to be a very cold winter for the US dollar.”
Now the article you quoted stated, “The U.S. dollar has taken a steep tumble — down 18 percent against the euro in the past 12 months, and more than 40 percent against the South African rand and Australian dollar — as U.S. officials have effectively diluted its value, printing money and adopting near-zero interest rates, to jump-start the economy.
The moves have sharply improved the U.S. trade deficit, as everything from American-made cellular phones to furniture suddenly become more competitive both at home and overseas while giving foreign manufacturers more incentives to create jobs in the United States. Analysts say the severity of the downturn in the United States as well as the unemployment rate would be markedly worse without the weak dollar.”
Friday’s release of the October jobs report showed the loss of another 190,000 jobs had pushed the official unemployment rate to 10.2%, only the second time since the Great Depression that unemployment was quoted in double digits (factoring in workers who had given up job hunting altogether or have settled for part-time work -U6- would push that rate to 17.5%). That didn’t stop Wall Street pundits from trying to fashion a silk purse of this sow’s ear. No mention was even made of the quality of what few jobs were being created. For example, we lost 61,000 manufacturing jobs last month, but added 45,000 jobs in education and health services. In particular, the addition of health workers is nothing to celebrate. Just as a family’s economic position is not improved by higher medical bills, the country as a whole does not benefit from increased health-care spending. The whole notion that government can engineer an economic recovery by massively increasing debt is beyond insane; so long as all we do is create nonproductive jobs a real recovery will never take hold, and the overall job outlook will get much bleaker. Take particular note of the FACT that we lost manufacturing jobs as the US dollar declined. If we are more competitive then why are we losing manufacturing jobs?
George W. Bush dug this nation into a deep hole with his deficits. President Obama is just using a bigger shovel.
Last week President Obama announced the extention of benefits to the unemployed to keep the economy growing. Well if distributing more money to the unemployed will help the economy why not send out checks to everyone…..Oh, I forgot we already tried that in Stimulus 1 under Bush.
Of course, what Obama and his economic advises do not understand is that money spent by recipients of unemployment benefits is money not spent or invested by taxpayers. It’s a transfer of wealth, not a creation of new wealth. And therein lies the rub between you and I. You believe that transferring wealth is the road to prosperity, while I believe creating new wealth will lift everyone’s standard of living. Government sucks capital out of the economy and limits growth. The bigger the government the less capital is available to the private sector.
During the boom, we spent money we did not have to buy things we did not produce and could not afford. Government taking the place of the consumer has never worked and will not work this time.
To generate legitimate economic growth and meaningful jobs, we must reverse the trends that brought us down. Consumers may have led us into this recession, but they can’t lead us out. The road to recovery is a one-way street, and it’s paved with savings, capital investment, and production. It’s not an easy road, but we must follow it to ensure our future prosperity.”
Kash, it is now becoming a well known fact that government skews statistics in its favor. This has been going on for decades but it is only now, in this depression, that we are becoming aware that we live in the Twilight Zone, where nothing the government says is real.
Over the past 12 months the Bureau of Labor Statistics Birth Death Model has added 850,000 mythical jobs to the Payroll Employment Survey. By all accounts, this data is false and is a stunning example of statistics created in outer space where only happy talk is allowed, and, unbeknownst to the people, psychological warfare is actually taking place against them behind the scenes.
”
The official numbers are so bad and inaccurate that a business has emerged to show what the real economy actually looks like.” (John Williams’ “Shadow Government Statistics” http://www.shadowstats.com).
The way government fabricates the numbers through hedonic pricing and substitution they can keep the real rate of inflation low enough to insure GDP growth when in fact real GDP is contracting. This is the psychological warfare perpetrated on the American people by its own government. Keep them fooled as long as you can.
But eventually the people figure it out, you may be the exception, and when they do panic sets in. The panic is almost always demonstrated in the dishoarding of the currency. The velocity of money goes into overdrive and hyperinflation takes hold as confidence collapses.
This whole process may unfold over a period of months or even a few years or it can happen overnight. Either way the end results are always the same; poverty for the vast majority of people, scarcity of products necessary to sustain life, rising crime, civil unrest, and death for the weakest in the society like the elderly.
SO AGAIN LET ME CONGRATULATE YOU; you got your wish. The dollar is falling to new lows and gold is pushing up to new highs.
For me it is heart breaking.
kash, the article you quoted stated that a weaker dollar would improve our balance of trade. THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. We import 70% of our energy. A weaker dollar means we will pay more for the energy we import. That will drive prices even higher. A weak currency improves the balance of trade when a nation does NOT import more than it exports. We IMPORT MORE THAN WE EXPORT so a WEAKER CURRENCY IS NOT GOING TO IMPROVE OUR BALANCE OF TRADE. IT WILL GUARANTEE A LOWER STANDARD OF LIVING, which you of course support so long as it is the rich who are paying. What you fail to understand is that the rich elites (not to be confused with the small businesses) have their tax lawyers to aviod taxes and lobbyist to make sure they keep their. For example, Teresa Hines Kerry reported that she paid less than 10% in taxes on an income of $5 million. I think I am right on these stats. Warren Buffett has admitted that he pays a lower tax rate than many of his employees.
So here is what a weaker dollar will bring:
“Oil up to near $80 as the dollar weakens
Oil rises to near $80 in European trade as the dollar weakens
Oil prices rose to near $80 a barrel Wednesday as the effects of a weaker dollar trumped a report pointing to a rise in U.S. oil inventories.
By early afternoon in Europe, benchmark crude for December delivery was up 58 cents to $79.63 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. The contract fell 38 cents to settle at $79.05 on Tuesday.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-up-to-near-80-as-the-apf-313142108.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=
So when oil prices rise, you and other Sheeple in your herd can protest against the greedy oil companies. Do not for a minute consider the fact that a lower dollar pushes up the cost of everything. Such a thought process is much too complicated for a “mind numbed robot.”
Geithner is encouraging what is already taking place. China is developing its own consumer base. From now on the Chinese will consume more and more of what they produce, instead of exchanging their hard earned production for US dollars which are created from nothing:
”
Geithner encouraged by moves in Japan, China
Geithner says moves by Japan, China to spur domestic demand will lead to more stable growth
TOKYO (AP) — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Wednesday he’s encouraged by efforts in Japan and China to spur domestic demand instead of relying so heavily on American consumers — a shift that will contribute to more stable global growth.
Geithner said he sees broad recognition among governments to create policies that will lead to more balanced, sustainable growth and avoid the kind of dangerous imbalances that contributed to the world recession.
“We’re very, very encouraged to see what’s happening here in terms of a broad reform agenda … to try to produce an economy more dependent on domestic sources of growth,” Geithner said in Tokyo on his way to joining Pacific Rim finance ministers meeting in Singapore for the annual APEC summit.
If the world economy is to grow in a stable way, he said, “it’s going to be less driven by the American consumer. You need to see a change in the sources of growth.”
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Geithner-encouraged-by-moves-apf-1490853085.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=2&asset=&ccode=
Nothing of what this man says makes any sense in light of the fact that government is going to place further burdens on US producers. Higher taxes, more regulations, except for the financial sector that continues to manufacture Toxic waste in the form of OTC derivatives, and further burdens on small businesses are sure to guarantee that many will either go out of business or close shop because they have discovered that the real owners of their business is government.
Kash proposes we return to tax rates of the 60s and 70s. What she fails to recognize is that back then there were more loopholes for businesses. In the 80s, Reagan basically gave us a flat tax, with two rates; but he also got rid of many of the loopholes. It worked well until Bush pushed rates up in his administration, followed by Clinton in the remainder of the 90s.
When Clinton was told that his tax hikes would slow the economy and could trigger a recession, his answer to avoid this assured One Term Presidency was to inflate. This goosed the economy but also led to the stock market bubble. When that bubble burst, Greenspan encouraged by Bush decided to prevent the deep recession that was necessary to clease the system and what we got was the Roaring 20s all over again from 2001 to 2006. Of course that party was funded with very cheap money, wild speculation, and a Real Estate bubble the size of Jupiter. When that bubble burst, the mess it made was so great that we are now finding it nearly impossible to clean up.
So what does government do, it inflates a whole new bubble; this time in bonds. That one is the mother of all bubbles and when it starts to deflate look out.
Kash, I ‘ve given you a lot to chew on, I doubt you will even read much of what I have written or provided in the way of links. Your knowledge of economics is so poor as to be nonexistent. But these messages are for anyone interested in what is really taking place in our economy. abc, is just one of those individuals that showed real interest and appreciated what I had to offer.
If even one person takes defensive actions, all the time I have spent will have been worth it. Kash, I fear you are too stubborn or too married to your political ideology to change. I do not know what it will take to convince you that what the government has been doing for 2 generations has been leading this nation to destruction, and just as a person starts off on drugs and feels only the highs we know that the end game is death, which is where we are taking this economy. The Statists have killed us all by destroying the value of the US dollar. The SYSTEM IS ROTTEN TO THE CORE and no one can fix it. It must be taken apart piece by piece and reassembled into a viable economy. The solution is simple but getting there will take time. The US must return to saving and investing, and production. This will not take place with oppressive government regulations and higher taxes on producers.
Cap and Trade will only enrich Al Gore and Goldman Sachs as they begin to buy and sell carbon credits and their derivatives. My guess is that this may become the largest derivatives market in the whole commodity complex. So while these financiers make Billions the American people can expect the cost of energy to rise by double digit percentages. How on earth will this make US manufacturers more competitive in the world market?
Kash you faith in this system is BLIND….TOTALLY BLIND….which is why I call you a Useful Idiot.
“It must be taken apart piece by piece and reassembled into a viable economy.” You can’t just take an economy apart and put it back together without affecting every aspect of the nation and the world. It would be a disaster. And quite frankly, even if your “prophesying” comes true in your lifetime, and the US economy crashes and burns to the point we have to hit a “reset” button and start over, we are not going to go back to gold. It ain’t gonna happen. We would tie our dollar to whatever currency came out on top after the crash. You are the one living in a dream world. Keep investing in gold, its a fine investment. But its not going to be anyone’s currency in the forseeable future, no matter that you and Doug think it is the money preferred by God.
“The US must return to saving and investing, and production.” Agreed. But we don’t have to go back to gold to do this, in fact, going back to gold would make it impossible to do the latter two.
kash: “Keep investing in gold, its a fine investment”
Further proof that you just do not listen. You create your own reality and go from there. How many times have I said that gold is NOT AN INVESTMENT. Gold is an INSURANCE POLICY AGAINST CURRENCY DEVALUATION.
It is so frustrating, you just do not listen. Either that or you just go around misstating what other people say.
Kash: “And quite frankly, even if your “prophesying” comes true in your lifetime, and the US economy crashes and burns to the point we have to hit a “reset” button and start over, we are not going to go back to gold. It ain’t gonna happen. We would tie our dollar to whatever currency came out on top after the crash.”
What is wrong with you? History has proven that when a fiat currency crashes the people demand honest money. That ALWAYS revives the economy and living standards, after having crashed along with the currency, begin to go up. Just read the next article I post on what took place in Zimbabwe and what Zimbabwe is becoming today.
And while the country is using other currencies, like the US dollar, the Euro, and the BP; it is my guess that when they return to their own currency it will be asset backed. If it is not it they will just go through the same process at some point in the future.
BTW, you have still not answered my challenge that Green Technology will likely go nowhere in the US. I’ll give you a hint, the reason is geopolitical.
This is a very moving article on Zimbabwe. Please note the decisions made by government that led to the hyperinflation and intense suffering that goes with it. Imagine how a family might have faired if they had diversified into foreign bonds and precious metals. They would have gotten through the crisis in tact and could have supplied their needs with real money as the Z. dollars collapsed. Also notice Kash, that a collapsed currency brings on hyperinflation not deflation like you claimed.
PART 1:
Zimbabwe: A Fresh Start
Alf Field
11 November, 2009
In February 2009 Zimbabwe was the only country in the world without debt. Nobody owed anyone anything. Following the abandonment of the Zimbabwe Dollar as the local currency all local debt was wiped out and the country started with a clean slate.
It is now a country without a functioning Central Bank and without a local currency that can be produced at will at the behest of politicians. Since February 2009 there has been no lender of last resort in Zimbabwe, causing banks to be ultra cautious in their lending policies. The US Dollar is the de facto currency in use although the Euro, GB Pound and South African Rand are accepted in local transactions.
Price controls and foreign exchange regulations have been abandoned. Zimbabwe literally joined the real world at the stroke of a pen. Money now flows in and out of the country without restriction. Super market shelves, bare in January, are now bursting with products.
I recently visited Zimbabwe in the company of a leading Australian fund manager. As a student of monetary history, I was interested to see what had happened to a country that had suffered hyperinflation. How did the people cope? How is the country progressing now? The current Zimbabwean situation is complicated by the fact that President Robert Mugabe is determined to stay in power whatever the cost.
The first part of this article deals with economics, the hyperinflation and current situation, which is a picture of recovery and potential vigorous growth. The second part deals with politics, both the historical aspects as well as current developments, which are extremely fluid.
We were fortunate to have private interviews with the Prime Minister, Morgan Tsvangirai, and a wide range of business leaders. This provided a quick picture of Zimbabwe past and present.
There are common denominators in all hyperinflations. Generally government finances reach a point where large budget deficits cannot be financed by taxes or borrowings. The choices come down to austerity (with the government cutting back its spending) or by funding the deficit by creating local currency through the printing press, leading to the inflation tax. This is always a political decision, but the line of least resistance is the printing press. Cutting government expenditures and laying off bureaucratic staff is anathema to most politicians.
In Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe has made it his mission to remain President for life. This has caused him to infiltrate his supporters into the army and police force. He also used Government finances as a way of funding patronage. His use of the printing press was liberal and nobody was prepared to stand up against him. This eventually led to inflation gathering momentum to the point where the armed forces were getting rebellious – they wanted more money. When Mugabe caved in to these demands, the Zimbabwe Dollar plunged.
Shortly after Mugabe was elected President in 1980, the Zimbabwe Dollar was worth more than the US Dollar. The ongoing abuse of the financial system eventually produced a runaway inflation. The largest bank note issued in Zimbabwe was for One Hundred Trillion Dollars and is pictured below. These notes are now collector’s items and I had to part with US$2 to a street vendor to acquire the note depicted below.
(Note; Pictures do not copy.)
PART 2:
The worst trauma for ordinary people during the hyperinflation was lack of food. This was due mainly to the imposition of price controls. If the cost of production of an item was $10 and the price controllers instructed that the item could only be sold for $5, the business would soon go bankrupt if they sold at the controlled price. The result was that production and imports just dried up, hence the empty shelves in the supermarkets.
People survived by shopping in neighboring countries and relied on assistance from South Africa and the aid agencies. Companies survived the hyperinflation with great difficulty and often by ignoring laws. Although companies were left without debt post February 2009, they were also left deficient in working capital and had dilapidated plant and equipment. Regular repairs and maintenance could not be afforded. Most companies now require urgent recapitalization.
There has been a major exodus of Zimbabweans over the years, estimated at about 3 million prior to 2008. Many of these were qualified people who were subjected to Mugabe’s campaign of terror. During the latter stages of the hyperinflation there was a further exodus because people were starving. Most of these people went south into South Africa. The current population of Zimbabwe is estimated to be between 10 and 12 million people, so the numbers that have fled the country are significant relative to the total population.
Current economic activity is strongly supported by remittances from Zimbabwean migrants to their families in Zimbabwe. Once the political situation settles down, it is likely that many of these migrants will wish to return to Zimbabwe. Some have already done so. Many activities that perished in the hyperinflation, such as insurance, are now starting to resuscitate.
Credit financing activities are starting to revive. Visa credit cards are once again operating successfully in Zimbabwe, others will surely follow. Banks have had both sides of their balance sheets devastated by hyperinflation and now have no lender of last resort to call on. They are understandably cautious in lending the deposits that are slowly filtering back into the system. Banks also lost much of their equity capital. Barclays Bank survived because it had 40 branches where the bank owned the real estate and had a strong parent. These properties plus some foreign currency holdings represent the equity capital on which the bank currently operates.
In a country with no debt, only assets, people and companies are under geared. With the ultra cautious lending policies of the banks, there is a huge opportunity for foreign investors in the credit purveying industry.
There has been a sharp rise in economic activity since February. Real wages have risen substantially compared to a year ago. Whatever workers were paid in Zimbabwe Dollars during the hyperinflation bought virtually nothing. Now even the minimum wage of around $100 per month allows for basic purchases. A 10kg bag of maize meal, a staple in the local diet, costs $3.50 and lasts for two weeks. Demand for products and services is increasing rapidly. Corporate profits are rising, leading to greater tax revenues for the Government, augmented by rising VAT taxes. Greater Government revenue allows for greater Government spending.
This self-reinforcing loop will continue. The improvement in the economy will become dramatic once Mugabe leaves the scene. At that time aid agencies, NGOs, Charities and foreign governments will start injecting large volumes of funds and assistance into the country. They refuse to commit any meaningful funds while Mugabe is still the President.
With Mugabe out of the way and the economy recovering strongly, one could reasonably anticipate that a large proportion of the Zimbabweans living overseas will return to the country bringing welcome skills and capital. Indeed foreigners will also be attracted to investing in the country in those circumstances.
It is fascinating to see how rapidly the economy is recovering. It is a great testament to what can be achieved in a free enterprise environment by the elimination of controls combined with the institution of new money that people trust. It needs to be money that their Government cannot create via the printing (or electronic) press.
The economic future of Zimbabwe is likely to be in mining, agriculture, tourism and service industries, especially those providing infrastructure and maintenance facilities. There remain many problems, not the least being chronic unemployment, but the future looks bright beyond the Mugabe horizon. The population is amongst the best educated in Africa and most people can speak English. With the Zimbabwe’s natural assets, there is scope for realistic optimism about the economic future, especially once the current political difficulties are overcome. The population has been brutally traumatized by the hyperinflation and the political situation. They really deserve a decent change of fortune.
THE POLITICAL SITUATION
To understand what has happened and is happening in Zimbabwe, it is necessary to look at some history. Modern Zimbabwean history began in 1890 with the arrival of the Pioneer Column of white settlers under Leander Starr Jameson at the behest of Cecil Rhodes. Initially they were searching for gold but when nothing of importance was found, they turned to pegging land for farms. The initial settlers were fortune hunters, grabbing land at every opportunity.
Prior to the arrival of the white settlers, the Shona tribe occupied the northern part of the country called Mashonaland, and the Ndebele tribe were ensconced in the south, called Matabeleland. In 1896 these tribes rebelled against white rule in one of the most violent episodes of resistance in the colonial era. In Matabeleland a somewhat dubious settlement was negotiated but in Mashonaland the Shona chiefs were hunted down until all resistance ceased. No Peace Treaty was ever signed with the Shona tribe.
The Shona, in particular, have never forgotten this. Mugabe, who is from the Shona tribe, has made it his life’s work to recover for his people the land that was “stolen” by the whites. He has repeated this statement on many occasions.
A book by Martin Meredith titled “MUGABE: Power, Plunder and the Struggle for Zimbabwe” published by Public Affairs, gives a very readable account of the recent history of Zimbabwe up to 2006, prior to the worst of the hyperinflation. It is required reading for anyone wishing to gain a balanced understanding of what has happened in that country with an emphasis on the period since Independence was granted in 1980.
Returning to the white settlers, there was always an unfair division of land between whites and blacks. This was accentuated after the Second World War when Rhodesia benefited from an influx of white immigrants. Farming boomed as a result of better equipment, better farming methods and better seeds. The number of white farmers increased from 4,700 in 1945 to 8,600 in 1960, increasing the demand for white occupied land. The black population was also expanding and African grievances over land eventually swelled to voluble protest. This is the background to the land invasions on white farms over the last decade. Mugabe was making good his promise to return the land to his people.
In 1962 Ian Smith’s Rhodesian Front party swept to power on their policy of maintaining the status quo for the white farmers. During the 1960s Britain was in the process of granting independence to its various colonies. Smith attempted to negotiate independence for Rhodesia but Britain would only accede to this if it was on the basis of democratic (one person, one vote) elections. Smith was intent on entrenching white minority rule “forever”, so Britain refused.
On 11 November 1965 the Smith government made a Unilateral Declaration of Independence which they claimed had precedent in the USA Declaration of Independence in 1776. This triggered a range of reactions. Sanctions were imposed by Britain and the United Nations. The black population was outraged, leading to the formation of black resistance movements aimed at changing the government.
Smith introduced the Law and Order (Maintenance) Act which allowed the government to literally do anything without recourse to the Courts or rule of law. One of his first acts was to imprison four black nationalist leaders without trial or publicity. Mugabe was one of these 4 and he spent the following 11 years in prison. He was released in 1974 during a brief cease fire between the Rhodesian forces and the liberation movements. Mugabe took the opportunity to escape across the border into Mozambique where he became leader of the resistance movement and was instrumental in organizing many terrorist raids on farms in Rhodesia.
The terror war became increasingly vicious on both sides. Rhodesian forces regularly crossed into neighboring territories, dealing brutally with the local population suspected of harboring terrorists. The neighboring countries eventually insisted that a peace deal be consummated. They would no longer tolerate liberation movements on their soil. Mugabe reluctantly agreed. The guerrilla war had spread to all corners of Rhodesia, forcing Smith to also come to the negotiating table.
In early 1980 the country became independent and changed its name to Zimbabwe. Mugabe stunned everyone by gaining 63% of the popular vote at the first elections. Despite claims of vote rigging and intimidation of voters, the numbers were so overwhelming that it was conceded that Mugabe had won and he was elected President of Zimbabwe. People just wanted peace.
Mugabe, despite initial claims of moderation, set about entrenching himself as president, a position he wanted to claim for life. Surprisingly Mugabe did not repeal the Law and Order (Maintenance) Act that the white regime had used to cover its many evil acts. Mugabe relied on its terms to justify the terrible things that he perpetrated over the ensuing 3 decades.
These atrocities are recorded in Martin Meredith’s book “Mugabe” and there is no point detailing them now. Suffice to say that he was bent on eliminating his opponents and intent on punishing anyone who criticized him. His Zanu-PF people infiltrated the army and the police force and were at his beck and call to act as thugs when required. Faithful people were rewarded with a range of patronage that he dispensed.
He found a compliant partner in the Governor of the Reserve bank, which became Mugabe’s source of funds to pay his people and to dispense his patrimony. Needless to say, much of the money came from printing new Zimbabwean dollars, which caused inflation to gradually increase. Finally the army and police forces to got cranky, publicly demanding much higher pay.
(the chart did not copy either.)
Part 3:
Clearly Mugabe was responsible for the hyperinflation. The causes were those always present in these events. A weak economy, large government budget deficits, inability to borrow funds combined with the political decision not to cut Government spending. Governments are reluctant to lay off government employees, especially those related to the armed forces. The latter might invite a military coup. The only source of funding left is the creation of new money.
A very important factor in assessing the current situation is that Mugabe no longer has his own private source of funds to continue with his system of patronage. The army, police force and civil servants are paid by the Unity Government. Mugabe’s power base must be disintegrating rapidly. He has also become very unpopular. It seems unlikely that he could win an election again, even if he managed to get his thugs to resort to intimidation. People identify Tsvangirai and the MDC with the new monetary disposition and the improved economy, while Mugabe is correctly blamed for the trauma of hyperinflation.
There is also the question of sanctions. In recent speeches Mugabe has said that it was time for sanctions against Zimbabwe to be removed. This is nonsense. It is Mugabe and 200 of his associates who are under sanction by the US and other countries under the Zimbabwe Democracy and Economic Recovery Act. This prevents them and their families from travelling overseas and freezes their external bank accounts.
This combination of circumstances, combined with the fact that he is 86 years old, suggests that Mugabe must be under pressure to resign. It is a logical deduction that behind the scenes Mugabe must be attempting to negotiate a form of amnesty against prosecution. The next month is important as the SADC, which guaranteed the terms of the recent Unity Government, has given Mugabe until 6 December 2009 to comply with all outstanding issues.
PART 4:
COMMENTS and CONCLUSIONS
Having seen the impact of hyperinflation at close quarters, my view is that this is the least desirable method for eliminating excessive debt. The population has been traumatized physically (starvation), mentally and financially. Most people did not have foreign assets or local tangible assets, so lost virtually everything. The companies survived using unusual skills, ignoring laws and protecting working capital by holding foreign currency or purchasing equities.
The alternative option for eliminating excessive debt is to take the tough political decision of allowing ‘too big to fail’ companies to fail and accept the unpleasant economic consequences. Excessive Government spending should be curbed. A sound currency, elimination of all rules and controls in a completely free market will produce a much better result in the long term. If this option were adopted, the short term would likely be extremely unpleasant, possibly including an economic depression. It is doubtful whether any Government today has the courage to take this route. Sadly this implies that the world is headed down the path of currency destruction that will eventually result in a Zimbabwean situation for the elimination of debt. Zimbabwe may yet prove to be a role model, demonstrating how rapidly a country can recover from the devastation of hyperinflation and the elimination of debt.
In Zimbabwe the serious problem of the land issue remains to be resolved. Morgan Tsvangirai indicated that security of land tenure was vital. One option is the Zambian model where all land was nationalized followed by the issue of 99 year leases to property holders. The MDC will also look at some form of compensation for farmers who have been dispossessed. They are anxious to see a land audit set up, but Mugabe is stalling on this for obvious reasons.
On mining, the MDC are examining a bill that will require concessions to be developed in a shorter period, perhaps 2-3 years, compared to 100 years currently. They will aim at a combination of royalties and taxes to provide the State’s share of mining profits rather than insisting on a percentage of local ownership.
PERSONAL NOTE
My family was concerned about me going to Zimbabwe. “Don’t you know that it is a dangerous place?” I admit that I was nervous too. International news on Zimbabwe seems to be preoccupied with violence, particularly the brutal land invasions and physical intimidation in the political sphere. The fact that foreign media have not been allowed into the country until the past few months has resulted in a false image being projected. Mugabe’s thugs have closed down newspapers that were critical of his regime, so news has tended to be pro-Mugabe.
We arrived late on a Saturday evening and due to the massive time change, I woke very early on Sunday morning. I decided to take a walk around central Harare and found my way to the Harare Catholic Cathedral. There were Masses in the local language at 7am, 8am, and 9am, followed by an English Mass at 10.00am. All four Masses were standing room only, as can be seen in the photograph below.
(pictures do not copy)
PART 5:
Standing room only at four consecutive Masses at the Harare Catholic Cathedral
The people were well dressed and looked well nourished. They were all friendly and affable. My view that Zimbabwe was a dangerous place did a dramatic about turn. These were peaceable people who wanted nothing but a quiet life. Walking around the streets, I never felt harassed physically. The curio sellers at Victoria Falls were a pain, but so are street vendors everywhere. They were certainly all friendly and intelligent. They could get involved in a serious conversation and all had strong views about economics and politics. Obviously it is Mugabe’s thugs that people fear, but that is becoming less of a problem.
All my preconceived ideas about Zimbabwe were smashed. I now believe it has a bright future, especially once Mugabe leaves the scene. I was sufficiently encouraged by the prospects for the economy and sufficiently impressed by the high quality of the senior executives of major companies to make some small initial personal investments on the Harare Stock Exchange.
Anyone looking for a safe, interesting, place to visit should consider Zimbabwe. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised and have an enjoyable trip.
10 Nov, 2009
Alf Field
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Field/nov112009.html
MIke, I am touched by your concern over the welfare of Zimbabwe. But it still has many important and real differences from the situation we are facing in the US, including additional challenges such as political instability and inadequate infrastructure. They have a rough row to hoe, as many African nations do, and we in the West are somewhat responsible for that because of the legacy of colonialism. A lot of the gold that we have in the west left from Zimbabwe mines without leaving any of the wealth in the country where the gold came from! “How many times have I said that gold is NOT AN INVESTMENT. Gold is an INSURANCE POLICY AGAINST CURRENCY DEVALUATION.” You do realize that if we go back on a gold standard, the price of gold is likely to be set by the Treasury (as it used to be) at a much lower rate than what your gold is currently worth.
kash: “You can’t just take an economy apart and put it back together without affecting every aspect of the nation and the world. It would be a disaster.”
When one has cancer, the cancer must be treated. It must be burned, cut out, and / or poisoned. It is unpleasant but necessary to recover. I could also use the example of drug or alcohol addiction. Withdrawal is unpleasant but necessary to recovery. Avoiding withdrawal means staying addicted and that in the end kills.
It has been decades of avoiding unpleasant but necessary recessions that have taken us to where we are. The system was never allowed to cleanse itself. A booming economy is the disease, the recession is the cure to the disease. It is part of the business cycle and capitalism.
Now we are at the breaking point. Yes, we must restructure the economy because no economy that is over 70% dependent on consumption is going to last. It will collapse under a massive debt. A debt build up by the private sector (consumer debt) or by the public sector, government.
I hope you take the time to read the Zimbabwe story. I pray that the US is able to turn the ship of state and start on a new path.
And yes we will return to gold in the form of a currency based on a gold certificate ratio, updated and modernized. That will be the only way to keep the monetary system honest. And it is honest money that brings prosperity.
I think it was PBS that did a segment on Zimbabwe where as the currency went into its final stages of collapse, the people began to trade in gold. The would go to the streams and rivers to pan for gold. In the story they told of the exact amount of gold it took to provide the necessities of life.
Kash: ” But it still has many important and real differences from the situation we are facing in the US, including additional challenges such as political instability and inadequate infrastructure. ” You did not read the article did you. Zimbabwe at one time was an exporting nation. The were the bread basket of Africa. They were prosperous, even with the segregationist government. At one time the Zimbabwe dollar was worth more than the US dollar.
IT WAS THE GOVERNMENT THAT DESTROYED THE CURRENCY AND THE NATION.
Can’t you connect the dots. Government handed out priviledges to a select few. The only difference between Zimbabwe and Mugabee are the names, no JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, or BAC.
Kash: ” You do realize that if we go back on a gold standard, the price of gold is likely to be set by the Treasury (as it used to be) at a much lower rate than what your gold is currently worth.”
Just when I think you cannot make a more stupid statement than you have in the past, you go and do it. This one takes the cake. This one is so dumb I am left speechless.
The only way for the price of gold to be lower is for the US to absorb all those extra dollars. You know the trillions held in foreign reserves and in bank accounts. Now pray tell how are they going to get all those dollars back from China. Pay the Chinese with more printed dollars. How about give the Chinese gold in exchange for their dollars, but wait that would deminish the amount of gold in our vaults and devalue the dollars in existence.
I know how they can do it. The treasury can establish a new currency and tell everyone that they must exchange the old for the new at a rate set by government. In Germany that was 1 trillion old for 1 new. But wait, I have already said that would be the end game.
I think I know your problem. You worship at the idol of the state, therefore, in your mind the state is god. And since your god is all powerful, it can just wave a wand and set the price of gold without considering the amount of currency that it must back up.
Given the amount of currency in circulation and stuffed in the bank vaults overseas, then taking into account the estimated gold in our reserves, the price of gold would have to be valued somewhere around $65,000 per ounce. But that is an estimate since our gold has not been audited since Dwight E. was president.
kash: “They have a rough row to hoe, as many African nations do, and we in the West are somewhat responsible for that because of the legacy of colonialism.”
Spoken like the true blue racist liberal that you are. You see all Africans the same, when indeed they are not. The nations on this continent with good governments are doing just fine. This part of the world is about to emerge and I think will be the jewel of the planet in this century.
You see this continent as a victim of the evil west. While colonialism did have an impact on the people and national borders did not take into consideration tribal competition, the nations that got it right have done just fine. The rest will catch up once they get honest government. IT IS GOVERNMENT THAT ALWAYS CREATES THE MISERY FOR THE PEOPLE, WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULD OPPOSE BIG GOVERNMENT. Government is a necessary evil, which is why the Government that governs least governs best.
Green energy is going to have a tough time in the US. My bet is that China will lead in this technology. I bet kash doesn’t know why I am so sure this will be the case. It really is very simple and it involves our government, which will impede the industry in the US. I have to go but I will return to see what Kash has to say.
MIke, some of the government will try to impede the industry in the US – the ones who get their contributions from oil. But Obama is trying for it anyway. http://www.greenwala.com/news_articles/3024-Obama-unveils-historic-power-grid-reform
I hope China does lead on green technology, because if their population continues to use dirty power like we have as their standard of living rises, the planet is REALLY cooked. Of course, it is hardly surprising that they don’t like to be lectured about going green by Americans, since we consume the most power per capita of any nation. The US alone uses 25% of the world’s energy, though we have just 5% of the population. We have to learn to be less greedy, or learn to produce more of our energy at home and with cleaner technology, if we really want to be free of foreign influence in our country. No wonder all the Presidents are so cozy with the Saudis, in spite of the fact that Saudi money finances many of our enemies.
“Spoken like the true blue racist liberal that you are. You see all Africans the same, when indeed they are not.” You got all that from my saying that many African countries have a rough row to hoe? Give me a break. Mike, if I said the sky was blue you would somehow turn that around as to why I am so ignorant and liberal as to think that the sky actually has a color, when we all know that it is a government conspiracy that makes the sky just appear blue. My Dad has worked in Nigeria, my sister has worked in Kenya, and I have a good friend who runs an orphanage in Uganda. I think I know that Africa is not one monolithic continent but a lot of individual countries which are made up of multiple regions and tribes. But you know what MOST of those countries have in common? A history of exploitation by colonial powers in the West.
“The nations on this continent with good governments are doing just fine.” No duh. But I thought in your world there was no such thing as a good government, so you seem to be contradicting yourself in your attempt to belittle me.
Mike, I’m done responding to you. You’ve always been mean and dismissive, but you used to at least be consistent and stick to your area of expertise: gold and your Austrian economics. Now you just take pot shots at whatever I say on any subject. You no longer deserve my efforts to make rational responses to your ranting and raving. This is a waste of my time and space on this blog (not to mention you always get off topic).
kash: “MIke, some of the government will try to impede the industry in the US – the ones who get their contributions from oil. But Obama is trying for it anyway. ”
I knew you didn’t know the answer to this one because you do not track proposed mining legislation like I do, nor do you track commodities. But instead of asking someone that does know these things and is willing to provide the information, you stick to your liberal ideas and do not consider the facts for a second. You are devoted to a political ideology and that’s it.
Now for answer to the question. Green energy relies on small powerful motors and generators. You cannot build a reliable electric car without them.
Are you with me so far?
These motors are dependent on rare earth elements, which are abundant on the planet but only a few areas of the world have concentrations high enough to mine. Are you still with me kash or have you drifted off into your Polyanna Socialist dream world?
To build these small motors (electric – hybrid cars) / generators (wind power) you NEED RARE EARTH ELEMENTS. No rare earth elements means no small motors or reliable batteries and no small generators.
The US is 100% dependent on China for its rare earth elements. We use to mine rare earths in California but the environmentalists and government regulations shut it down. China has already announced that by 2014 they will no longer sell their rare earths outside of China because they will need all they produce for their own needs. That will only leave Australia, with its Mount Weld deposit as a producer.
So what is the US government doing about this situation? Passing legislation that will bring mineral exploration to a halt. As it stands now it takes over a decade to bring a mine into production due to the lengthy permitting process and lawsuits by the environmentalist (from what I know the movement was hijacked by the far left and is used to inhibit growth in America).
The antimining legislation has provisions in it that no mining company seeking to find new deposits can live with. For example there is a 6.5% tax off the top on any production. Mining is one of the riskiest most capital intensive businesses there is. Taking 6.5% off the top would put many out of business right off the bat. In addition and worst of all are provisions which state that at any time the government can cancel a permit. So just imagine, what company would spend tens of millions of dollars exploring, and going through the permiting process and just as it gets to production, the government shuts them down. The risks would be too great. Development of America’s mineral resources would come to a virtual standstill.
THIS IS YOUR BELOVED STATIST BIG GOVERNMENT AT WORK. One more thing, rare earths are used to crack oil. What is going to happen to the price of gasoline when the price of materials used to produce it go ballistic and are in very short supply.
Oh well, we can all take comfort that we are helping keep the environment clean as the US slides into 3rd world status……HMMM I forgot, third world countries are notoriously polluted.
kash: ‘“Spoken like the true blue racist liberal that you are. You see all Africans the same, when indeed they are not.” You got all that from my saying that many African countries have a rough row to hoe? Give me a break.”
Once again you only quoted part of what I quoted from your message.
I wrote: “kash: “They have a rough row to hoe, as many African nations do, and we in the West are somewhat responsible for that because of the legacy of colonialism.”
”
I may have jumped to conclusions and if I am wrong I appologize. But your statement suggests that colonialism is responsible for Africa’s problems. It’s been 50 years since the former colonies were given their freedom. The problem many of the African countries are having entering the 21st century, many are not out of the 18th, is their government.
At one time or another all nations and peoples suffer through trials that they either recover from or disappear all together. The Jews that survived WW II were able to rebuild and took over a dessert region and have prospered inspite of constant attacks from larger neighbors. Many holocaust survivors went to other nations and rebuilt what was left of their lives. They were victims during the War but decided not to be victims after the war by living in the past.
The biggest problem the Black community in America has is its sense of victimhood. Far too many believe that their poor circumstances is the result of whiteman’s enslavement of the Black race. As long as a human being considers himself/ herself a victim they cannot move forward. Victimhood is like an anchor around the neck of a competitive swimmer. They just can’t win so they just don’t try.
Most liberals I come into contact with are very condesending towards blacks, and African nations. When the issue of foreign aid, which is welfare for nations, is brought up they say things like, “well its the West’s fault they have these problems and it’s our responsibility to help them.” I ask them to name on nation that has improved its lot through foreign aid?
The answer is silence. THE ONLY NATIONS TO IMPROVE THE LOT OF ITS PEOPLE ARE THOSE NATIONS THAT HAVE REASONABLE JUST GOVERNMENTS THAT GUARANTEE PROPERTY RIGHTS and therefore encourage business investments.
Foreign aid like welfare does little to help anyone and does more harm than good, as evidenced by its impact on the black family in America. But I will say that such redistribution of wealth does make the Liberal Left feel good…..very very good.
So I may have jumped to conclusions in your case and if I did I am sorry.
kash: “Mike, I’m done responding to you. You’ve always been mean and dismissive, but you used to at least be consistent and stick to your area of expertise: gold and your Austrian economics. Now you just take pot shots at whatever I say on any subject. You no longer deserve my efforts to make rational responses to your ranting and raving. This is a waste of my time and space on this blog (not to mention you always get off topic).”
Let me take your statement sentence by sentence.
kash: ‘You’ve always been mean and dismissive, but you used to at least be consistent and stick to your area of expertise: gold and your Austrian economics.”
Not true. Way back last January, Doug and I tried to reason with you but you blocked every point. Blocked not by providing evidence to support your conclusions but blocked as in “I will not change my mind no matter what you say or prove to me.” You used the Bible even though your interpretations of passages were completely wrong as Doug and I have pointed out. Maybe I have been mean……make that I have been mean, but that is because I see a person who claims to be a Christian that does not give a rat’s behind that people are suffering and will suffer like no one can imagine due to government actions, and that I do not understand, and despise.
Kash: ” Now you just take pot shots at whatever I say on any subject.”
Again, NOT TRUE. I do NOT just take pot shots, I provide details / facts / links to other experts to back up everyone of my opinions. You on the other hand either just believe what the Liberal Left says or just believe things because you establish the foundations of your opinions. No rational or reasoned arguments are sufficient for you to change your mind. When it comes to issues like the age of the earth, it doesn’t matter much what a person believes. When it comes to the economic system we as a nation adopt, it makes all the difference in the world. You teach/ influence your children and people you come into contact with every day. If they adopt a political ideology that is harmful, then their votes will reflect that philosophy. In my opinion, which is not humble, you are doing great harm. I have provided volumes of data and thus far I have been 100% correct in my predictions. I have been percise, even giving some investment advice to abc. If you wish you can track my performance in that area alone. You will see that my picks will beat the market and most experts hands down. I know what I am talking about. I’ve proven it. You on the other hand are clueless and do everything possible to remain ignorant. You say I am an expert on gold and Austrian economics (I’m really common sense economics) and yet you have not accepted A SINGLE POINT….A GRAIN OF FACT….A KERNAL OF TRUTH of anything I or Doug, who is the real expert on the subject, have said.
You claim to be open minded and enlightened yet all the evidence point to a mind that is slammed shut. Sort of like the Pharisees, who Jesus witnessed to and provided all the evidence in the world to His diety and yet they rejected Him. Finally in Matt.23, He had had it and finally let go by calling them “Blind guides and vipers.” I know exactly how Jesus felt, and before you take my words and say I am proclaiming to be Jesus, I am merely using it as an example. You are like the Pharisees, where no amount of proof or evidence will convince you of a truth you refuse to accept.
kash: “You no longer deserve my efforts to make rational responses to your ranting and raving. This is a waste of my time and space on this blog (not to mention you always get off topic).”
I’m glad you are through with me, I do not have the time either. Over the next few years, I pray you will be able to write on some message board, “Mike is a complete idiot. He predicted the dollars demise and gold would go to $3500. The dollar is alive and well and gold has fallen to $350. What a complete fool the man was to predict all this doom and gloom.” This is what I pray for every day. It gives me no pleasure knowing that gold hit another high at $1124 this morning. I’m not making any money in my gold, I am merely preserving my purchasing power and not letting the government rob me of ALL THAT GOD HAS GIVEN TO ME FINANCIALLY. I am profitting handsomely in my natural resource stocks and continue to use my bounty to support my church and help wherever and whenever I can. I wonder how the market is treating your portfolio of stock and bonds as well as your real estate investments. I’m sure they have recovered some but in light of inflation your investments in these areas have been hammered hard. I’ve only had one down year since 2000. I’m giving 3 times more to my church than I did just 6 years ago. I am stewarding God’s provisions as best I can and according to HIS WORD, which hates a diverse measure.
As for being off topic, the issue was government’s involvement in health care. I said, “We can’t afford it. The government is BROKE.” Government’s continued debt and money printing is going to destroy the dollar and will send prices skyrocketing. An eight year old can understand this, but not you. You claim that a collapsing currency will bring on lower prices; deflation. Only in the Bizarro world does a collapsing currency make it more desireable. You said that Germany first went through a deflation before the hyperinflation. I proved to you that such was not the case (I provided a table of exchange rates in message #31), but that makes no difference to you as you create your own reality. Unfortunately your delusional reality will not be the rest of America’s reality. A collapsing currency brings on shortages, high prices for necessities, hunger, cold, crime, violence, and death. This is what you promote kash by supporting the very people that are bringing this on us and you and your family, which is why I call you a useful idiot.
The discussion between you and I should be over….you have chosen to remain blind and at some point you and your family will pay dearly for your blindness. How I pray I am wrong. This is what you do not understand.
Socialism doesn’t work and here is proof:
“An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had failed an entire class. That class had insisted that socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer.
The professor then said, “OK, we will have an experiment in this class on the present administration’s plan”.
All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.
Could not be any simpler than that”.
Big government is a form of Socialism. Redistribution of weath makes everyone poorer. Only creation of new wealth lifts all in a society. Government’s role should be limited to providing a just and level playing field for all. Big government promotes big business over small business as those with economies of scale are able to influence and deal with burdensome government regulations. Large corporations have the resources to deal with burdensome regulations while the start up companies cannot. With declining competition, the large corporations become the dominant players with the most influence on government. THIS IS THE SYSTEM KASH and maybe MATTF SUPPORT. I just don’t understand these people….I really don’t.
Mike: Post#151 was a good one. I think the non-critical thinking was developed in the government schools. They don’t teach people how to think, they teach how to be a good slave to the state, and how to promote the state at all points. To be a liberal you have to be a very lazy thinker.
Paul: “Mike: Post#151 was a good one. I think the non-critical thinking was developed in the government schools. They don’t teach people how to think, they teach how to be a good slave to the state, and how to promote the state at all points. To be a liberal you have to be a very lazy thinker.”
I fully agree with your non-critical thinking being taught. Back when I was in school, we had a 6 week course on propaganda technics used by governments and advertising. I think I was in the 9th grade, when it was considered Junior High School, and was taught as part of Civics. The preparation for that course was the 8th grade where I was required to memorize the Preamble to the Constitution, the first half of the Declaration- we also analyzed its components and how it tied into the Constitution, and the Gettysberg Address. I recall my history teacher sitting at her desk while I recited these documents in American History. I dare say not one in 10 students graduating from high school today even know what these documents are.
BTW, I recall my English teachers making us memorize certain poems, some Shakespeare, and other works of literature. All this before we graduated to what was then high school. I still remember most of what I had to memorize way back in the early 60s.
I think you pegged it, when you said, “To be a liberal you have to be a very lazy thinker.” I would add that you have to live in an idealized world that does not exist, which is why liberals promote programs that sound good but do not work and many cause more harm than good. Bankrupting the nation is justified because the intentions are good….never mind the catastrophic results of massive debts and a debauched currency.
kash seems to think that we can never return to a gold back currency, yet she ignores the fact that China, India, and even Vietnam are adding to gold reserves. As a matter of fact most of the world central banks are doing the same. Why? Because they know their history. They are fully aware that fiat currency brings on inflation and loss of confidence in the paper garbage the CBs have been printing. The end game is always a reset to a new currency, which will be backed by gold, because the people will have lost all confidence in paper. Unfortunately those that do not prepare will get crushed the fiat collapse. Since the US dollar is still, for now the world’s reserve currency, its demise will bring others that have used it as a gold substitute down with it. Eventually all will be forced to dispose of those dollars, which they will do so on our shores. The inflation we have exported will then come home to roost just as the flood gates of dollars in the US break loose.
Kash refuses to believe it because it will destroy the State god she worships. MattF is so intellectual, that I wonder if he can tie his shoes. Thank heaven for velcro straps and slip on loafers.
Seriously, I do hope this debate has been helpful for some. I’ve tried to provide at least the basic information and websites people can visit to become educated on the critical topic of “the US dollar and its future.”
If nothing else people need to read the Zimbabwe story. It is not new. This has been repeated over and over again for thousands of years.
Kash once said that nations revert back to fiat currencies. Of course they do, man never learns and besides politicians, be they elected or granted authority through the devine right of kings, love the power of controlling the money supply. Through monetary debasement they can expand empires and pay for all sorts of pet projects like building monuments to themselves or bailing out their buddies on Wall Street. The end game is always suffering for the vast majority of the population. Only those that understand the process and know history protect themselves and their loved ones. The rest of the Sheeple just buy into whatever the government is telling them. Most of these Sheeple are unaware, while some like kash, are nothing but Useful Idiots.
kash: “MIke, some of the government will try to impede the industry in the US – the ones who get their contributions from oil. But Obama is trying for it anyway.”
I’m closing with this thought. Your statement is almost proof positive that you worship at the alter of the State / the Liberal Left possess your heart first and foremost. YOu can deny it all you want, but the evidence is clear. You have rejected what the Bible says about diverse weights and measures, because you must believe in the principle foundation of the State which is fiat money. Keynesians hate gold because it puts restrictions on the size of the state. It is no wonder that Communists, Socialists, and Fascist regimes have ALWAYS OUTLAWED GOLD AND SILVER. The penalties for trading in these metals has always been severe. FDR did much of the same, when the penalty for trading in gold or possessing gold as money (numismatic coins were not included) resulted in a fine of $10,000 and 5 years in prison.
My question to you was, “Why will the US find it difficult if not impossible to develope ‘Clean Technology’?” Your answer, “MIke, some of the government will try to impede the industry in the US – the ones who get their contributions from oil. But Obama is trying for it anyway,” is the one I would expect from someone who only reads the liberal left ideology. Big Oil is bad and evil. They are the ones that have prevented the clean technology we so desperately need in order to rake in billions from their dirty oil. What you fail to realize is that these companies are engaged in alternative energy research and development. Exxon Mobile is an energy company. They make their money by selling BTUs, mostly in the form of liquid fuels and natural gas. But they recognize that peak oil is here and the number of available land for development is shrinking rapidly, especially as countries nationalize oil fields. Where once the 7 sisters controlled over 70% of the world’s oil, the big independents now control less than 15%. They want to stay in business and that means transitioning to alternatives.
YOU WERE 100% WRONG IN YOUR STATEMENT. You credited Obama and the Democrats as the ones that are promoting Clean / Alternative energy, when in fact they stand in the way of such development. These morons you support think that all one has to do is build a structure that looks like windmill and presto you have wind energy. Just as the Leftist wackos have hyjacked the environmental movement and obstruct wind projects and solar projects based on environmental impact. For example check this out: “Across the desert flatlands of southeastern California, dozens of companies have flooded federal offices with applications to place solar mirrors on more than a million acres of public land. But just as some of those projects appear headed toward fruition, environmental hurdles threaten to jeopardize efforts to further tap the region’s renewable energy potential. ”
You cannot build a solar farm where the SUN DOES NOT SHINE, just as you cannot build a wind farm where the WIND DOES NOT BLOW. For example: “Rep. Oberstar has complained that the Cape Wind project is being considered “without the benefit of a uniform set of national navigational safety standards.”
The wind farm’s supporters have accused him of attempting to derail the project at the eleventh hour, and some have suggested he is acting at the behest of Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D., Mass.). Sen. Kennedy, whose family compound is in Hyannis Port, Mass., has long opposed the project.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123181056426575945.html
I will close with this question. Who really owns your heart? Is is the Lord Jesus Christ or the State. The evidence, in my opinion points more to the State. The worship of the State as god is a religion that many ascribe to. Those that worship the state believe it can solve all problems and should be the arbiter of who gets what in society. You even support a return to a 70% tax rate, with few deductions. The Alternative Minimum Tax that now traps many middle income Americans did not exist in the 60s – 70s when the top marginal rate was 70%. The social security tax was also much lower and medicare taxes were nonexistent. State income taxes were lower and there were fewer states collecting taxes on income. Property taxes were also lower back then, and there were fewer government regulations.
In your socialist / fascist world, the producers would be taxed to such an extent that many would stop producing, set up tax shelters wherever they could, or just leave the country.
There is nothing Biblical about what you believe regarding economics and wealth creation. By your own words you have labeled yourself a Devout Fundamentalist Statist and given the fact that you are not one of the elites, it makes you a Useful Idiot.
Definition of Useful Idiot: “In political jargon, the term useful idiot was used to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries and the attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that though the person in question naïvely thought themselves an ally of the Soviets or other Communists, they were actually held in contempt by them, and being cynically used.
The term is now used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by a political movement, terrorist group, hostile government, or business, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.”