Are Term Limits The Answer To Corruption In Washington?
Posted by truthtalklive on 17 August, 2009
We have them at the executive level so why not have them for senators and congressmen? An idea long overdue? or a bad idea altogether?
Today Stu moderates as Jim Kinney and Jamie Johnson square off on different sides of the issue.
You can join the conversation toll-free at (866) 34-TRUTH or you can weigh in right here.
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101 Comments on “Are Term Limits The Answer To Corruption In Washington?”
I think term limit’s are a good start, but for christians we need to have a good understanding of the sin nature. How a larger government controlling everything from healthcare, cars,banks,and just about anything else you might think of is causing all of us to lose freedom’s. Gary Demar has wrote an exceptional article on what the founders understood about human nature:
http://www.americanvision.org/worldviewforum/viewtopic.php?f=55&p=10281#p10281
Paul, so few Americans understand the role of the Federal Reserve in setting US policy. I do not have time to write a book on the subject, I just urge people to get a copy of G. Edward Griffin’s The Creature From Jekyll Island and READ IT. Mayer Amschel Rothschild once said, “All me to control a nations money and I do not care who makes its laws.” H.R. 1207 is a bill before Congress to fully audit the Federal Reserve.
Please understand this all you Americans, the Federal Reserve HAS NEVER BEEN FULLY AUDITED. Krispy Kreme Donuts gets a full audit every year but not the Fed. The Fed has been engaged in bailout mania for decades. Through the government, both Democrat and Republican administrations and both parties in control of Congress, foreign governments, foreign banks, have all be bailed out in order to protect US banks that issue risky loans.
IF the Fed is not brought under control nothing will change. Once the Fed is controlled we need to push for an asset backed currency and thus far the best asset to back a currency in all of history is gold.
This nation is headed for hyperinflation. A liability that would take 15 years to pay off at the speed of light, $186,000 per second is a liability that will default. The default will be by either renigging on the debt or inflating it away with cheap paper.
Mike: I agree with your statements, regarding the monetary system and how corrupt it is. Yes it is the major problem, but even small changes like term limits would be a good thing. Wow, no more career politicians, that would be very good. As far as the Federal Reserve, I completely agree.
Mike: BTW keep fighting the good fight, when people lamblast you there’s guy’s like me honkin’ you on.
Paul: “BTW keep fighting the good fight, when people lamblast you there’s guy’s like me honkin’ you on.”
You are one of the few that understand the true nature of the crisis we face and how we got to where we are. What I find so amazing that more non-Christians understand the evil that our fiat money is than Christians who are suppose to know the Bible. Once again Go figure.
Let’s have a lottery for the US House of Representatives where every two years a different citizen’s name is drawn to serve.
Mike: BTW keep fighting the good fight, when people lamblast you there’s guy’s like me honkin’ you on.
Answer: Except for the fact that you’re most likely Mike posting under a different name. No one in their right mind would be honkin’ Mike on.
I do not favor term limits. This takes away another right of the people which is to elect the person they want into office. Besides, the lobbiests would still be influencing the political parties. While limiting terms would eliminate the career Congressman it would not limit the career politician that would still be working the system.
We limit the President’s term of office and still presidents have issued orders that benefited only a few. Under Clinton, Sec. of Treasury R. Rubin managed to convince Congress to repeal the Glass Stegall act which established a wall between investment firms and the banks. Rubin went on to a job with Citi Group and earned over $100 million. Then we have Bush who in 2004 decided to allow banks to basically regulate themselves and leverage up 40 to 1. This led directly to the financial crisis which started in 2006 and is still unfolding.
If you want to see where the real problem is just look up the number of high government officials that come from Wall Street, especially the firm of Goldman Sachs.
I do not think term limits would have prevented the financial crisis we now face. The key is to first control the Fed by passing HR 1207, and eventually get rid of it all together.
Stu, I get the impression that you do not fully understand the role of the Fed in all of our woes. I listened to today’s discussion but decided not to call. So another Mike called in and basically said what I would have said, the Fed is the problem.
I urge you to either read G. Edward Griffin’s The Creature from Jekyll Island or pull up the video “Fiat Empire.” Every American should educate themselves on money, the 4 basic forms, and how it comes into existence. In the process everyone should understand the inflation cycle and why a sound monetary system, one based on a hard asset, automatically adjusts and never lets the system get too far out of balance.
For those of you who have forgotten Ecclesiastes (“There is nothing new under the sun”) and go around acting as though our current time in history is somehow uniquely corrupt and apocolyptical, you might gain from reading the following from http://americanhistory.suite101.com/article.cfm/presidential_election_of_1824
In the decade before 1824, the nation experienced three major events. The War of 1812 resulted in a stronger national government and a booming economy. The Panic of 1819 subsequently silenced that boom, creating distress across the country. The Missouri Compromise of 1820 introduced the first murmurs of sectional discord. The stage was set.
The National Republicans
The Nationalist wing of the Republican party believed that the federal government should help foster economic development in the wake of the War of 1812. To that end, the dominant Nationalists passed the Bank of the United States and protective tariff bills in 1816. This contributed to a speculative economy.
Congressional leader and Presidential candidate Henry Clay was instrumental in passing that legislation. Clay neatly packaged the Nationalist program as the “American System”- protective tariffs, a national bank, and federal support for internal improvements. The stature of the slaveholder Clay was further enhanced by his role in constructing the Missouri Compromise, cooling heads over slavery.
Those against slavery warmed to Secretary of State John Quincy Adams as President. Adams was the most experienced diplomat in America. He helped negotiate an end to the War of 1812 with the Treaty of Ghent. He was the chief architect of the Monroe Doctrine, which discouraged Old World influence in the Western Hemisphere.
The Radical Republicans
The speculative economy went bust in the Panic of 1819. Thousands of midwestern and southwestern farmers, along with land speculators, suffered foreclosure of their mortgages. Businessmen went bankrupt and workers lost their jobs. They all readily blamed bankers and the entrenched elite.
The economic crisis energized the radical wing of the Republican party, which was almost dormant during the Nationalist “Era of Good Feelings.” Secretary of the Treasury William Crawford of Georgia was a radical leader in Washington and was nominated for President by a congressional caucus. He favored states’ rights, strict construction of the Constitution, and the egalitarian virtues of the Revolution.
However, the farmers and laborers wanted an outsider and turned to War of 1812 hero Andrew Jackson. Jackson felt the mood of the public. His campaign pamphlet “Letters of Wyoming” blasted the nation’s capital as a sinkhole of corruption and called for the people to renew the fading republican virtues. The people answered the call, easily giving Jackson the popular vote.
Corrupt Bargain
No candidate attained a majority in the Electoral College, so the House of Representatives would choose between the top three: Jackson, Adams, and Crawford. But Clay was still a factor as partisans of the three aspirants sought his support in the House. Even Adams himself held a meeting with him. Eventually, it was public knowledge that Clay would support fellow Nationalist Adams.
Still the nation was shocked after the House vote. Adams won, picking up states that supported Clay. Once Adams nominated Clay for Secretary of State and the news of the Adams/Clay meeting got out, Radicals charged that a “corrupt bargain” was formed to steal the Presidency from Jackson.
Corrupt bargain or not, the election of 1824 had significant ramifications. Even the appearence of a sly deal motivated Radicals to organize for 1828 and would rename themselves Democrats. President Adams did not have a mandate for his nationalistic agenda but the Nationalists would form the core of the new Whig party to oppose Democrats after 1828.
Stu and all Truth Talk Live listeners, here are quotes in reference to Central Banks. Some are by our founding fathers and some are from the Central Bank itself. You must educate yourself on the nature of our monetary system and the evil it represents.
“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.” Thomas Jefferson
“”A great industrial nation is controlled by it’s system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated governments in the world–no longer a government of free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.” — President Woodrow Wilson (Wilson was elected in 1912 through the efforts and funds provided by the “Money interests. On Dec. 23, 1913, the Federal Reserve came into existence. The legislation was drawn up by a small group of the wealthiest institutions on earth; they represented 1/4 of the world’s wealth.)
“Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and
commerce.” — James A. Garfield, President of the United States
“Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a ‘dollar’ bill is just
a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries.” — Modern Money Mechanics Workbook,
Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975
“We are completely dependant on the commercial banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar
we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system…. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it becomes widely understood and the defects remedied very soon.” — Robert H. Hamphill, Atlanta Federal Reserve Bank
From the Federal Reserves Own Admissions
“When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in out account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money.” — Putting it simply, Boston Federal Reserve Bank
“The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen.
There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the
International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)
“The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny…” — Congressman
Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941
“This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President [Wilson} signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized….the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill.” — Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr. , 1913
“From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913
“The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it’s profits or so dependant on it’s favors, that there will be no opposition from that class.” — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863
George Washington – in a letter to Jabez Bowen, Rhode Island, Jan. 9, 1787
“Every lover of his country will therefore be solicitous to find out some speedy remedy for this alarming evil. There is no possible substitute for the loss of commerce. Our first grand object, therefore, is its restoration. I presume not to dictate or direct. It is a subject that will require the deepest deliberations and researches of the wisest and more experienced men in America to fully comprehend. It probably belongs to no one man existing to possess all the qualifications required to trace the course of American commerce through all intricate paths nor to those and only those that shall lead the United States to future glory and prosperity. I am sanguine in the belief of the possibility that we may one day become a great commercial and flourishing nation.
But if in the pursuit of the means we should unfortunately stumble again on unfunded paper money or any similar species of fraud, we shall assuredly give a fatal stab to our national credit in its infancy. Paper money will invariably operate in the body of politics as spirit liquors on the human body. They prey on the vitals and ultimately destroy them.”
“Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.”
What Washington said, in paraphrase –
“If ever again our nation stumbles upon unfunded paper, it shall surely be like death to our body politic. This country will crash.”
Our founders had experienced the effects of man’s manipulated paper money. The Continental dollar impoverished many Americans that at one time had been wealthy. These were brilliant men who knew the lessons of history; and the history of money debasement is NOT GOOD.
Those of you that believe the Federal Reserve is a benevolent institution are completely ignorant of the lessons of history. So long as we continue with a Federal Reserve that has complete control of the money supply, we will remain servants to the institutions that control the money. Gold equals freedom.
kash, quotes from her sources: “The National Republicans
The Nationalist wing of the Republican party believed that the federal government should help foster economic development in the wake of the War of 1812. To that end, the dominant Nationalists passed the Bank of the United States and protective tariff bills in 1816. This contributed to a speculative economy.”
This article suggests that the Republican party existed during the time period mentioned. Am I right or wrong in this assumption? If so, it fails to mention that the Republican party it speaks of is really the Democratic – Republicans, which later dropped its Republican name and became the Democrat party. THE ENTIRE PIECE YOU QUOTE IS SHEER PROPAGANDA.
From Wikipedia on the history of both the Republican Party and the Democrat Party:
The Republican Party is one of the two major contemporary political parties in the United States, along with the Democratic Party. Founded by anti-slavery expansion activists in 1854, it is often called the Grand Old Party or the GOP, despite being the younger of the two major parties.
The Democratic Party evolved from political factions that opposed Alexander Hamilton’s fiscal policies in the early 1790s; these factions are known variously as the Anti-Administration “Party” and the Anti-Federalists. In the mid-1790s, Thomas Jefferson and James Madison organized these factions into the Republican (or Democratic-Republican) Party.[4][5][6] It favored yeoman farmers, strict construction of the Constitution, and a weaker federal government……….
Before 1801, the Democratic-Republicans favored France in the wars between Britain and France, and opposed the Jay Treaty (which restored peace with Britain) because, they believed, it might help monarchist elements inside the United States. Until 1816, the party generally opposed such Federalist policies as high tariffs, a navy, military spending, a national debt, and a national bank. After the near defeat of the United States in the War of 1812, however, the party split on these issues. Many younger party leaders, notably Henry Clay, John Quincy Adams, and John C. Calhoun, wanted to build a strong national defense. Meanwhile, the faction led by John Randolph of Roanoke, William H. Crawford, and Nathaniel Macon, fearful that a strong military would oppress the people, continued to oppose policies that centralized the government and empowered the military………..
After 1830, the Democratic Party became a coalition of farmers, city-dwelling laborers, and Irish Catholics. With the decline of the Federalists, the Whig Party became the Democrats’ main opponent. Democrats were weakest in New England; nevertheless, they continued to win national elections thanks to strength in New York, Pennsylvania, Virginia (by far, the most populous states at the time), and the frontier. Democrats opposed elites and aristocrats, the Bank of the United States, and modernizing programs that would build up industry at the expense of the taxpayer. These policies fell under the umbrella term Jacksonian Democracy………
In 1854, despite strong protest, the main Democratic leader in the Senate, Stephen A. Douglas of Illinois, pushed through the Kansas-Nebraska Act. Although it was not the initial purpose of the act, it established that settlers could vote to decide to allow or not allow slavery. Against the backdrop of the slavery issue, a major re-alignment took place among voters and politicians, with new issues, new parties, and new rules. The Whig Party dissolved entirely. While the Democrats survived, many northern Democrats (especially Free Soilers from 1848) joined the newly established Republican Party. Buchanan split the party on the issue of slavery in Kansas when he attempted to pass a Federal slave code; most Democrats in the North rallied to Stephen A. Douglas, who believed that a Federal slave code would be undemocratic.
The Democratic Party was unable to compete with the Republican Party, which controlled nearly all northern states by 1860, bringing a solid majority in the electoral college. The Republicans claimed that the northern Democrats, including Doughfaces such as Pierce and Buchanan, and advocates of popular sovereignty such as Stephen A. Douglas and Lewis Cass, were accomplices to Slave Power. The Republicans argued that slaveholders had seized control of the federal government and were blocking the progress of liberty.
kash, you are a liberal ideologue and merely repeat the Democrat talking points. It is becoming obvious that you will say anything to prove your point. You obviously do not care about truth. You are beginning to sound an awful lot like another person on this message board that makes things up and quotes from sources that are extremely bias.
The history of the Democrat party is clear. It was the party that promoted slavery. It was the party whose members established the KKK, and after Reconstruction denied blacks their Constitutional Rights. It was the Southern Democrats led by the likes of Senator Gore of Tenn., Robert Byrd, a member of the KKK, and others that opposed the Civil Rights legislation of the 1960s. LBJ had to ask the Republicans to support the Voting the Rights act as Democrats in Congress were vehemently opposed to giving Blacks their rights to vote. Run down a list of Southern Governors that opposed school desegregation and you will not find a single Republican among them…they were all democrats. When Eisenhour sent nationalized Ark. National Guard to integrate Little Rock’s schools he did so against the protest of Ark. Democrat governor.
The Radicals today live in the Democrat party. They will enslave you, your children, and grandchildren while you continue to promote the party line. Doug tried to discuss the issue of the Fed and fiat currency with you but to no avail. He presented a Christian World View which you consistently rejected. I now think I know why. It is a sad state when a person that proclaims to be a Christian appears to be more loyal to a political ideology than the faith they profess.
Mike, the Republican party existed, but it was different than what we call the Republican party today. That is not propaganda, that is history 101. The piece I quoted was a history piece.
Even the most casual students of history know that the party called “Republican” pre 1850 was more like the later Democratic party. But they were stilled called “Republican” at the time and are now listed in chronological presidential lists as “Republican” with an asterisk or “Republican-Democratic” although that hypenated designation didn’t exist at the time. The modern manifestation of the Republican party started in earnest with Lincoln, though he wouldn’t recognize his own party today. And yes, the Democratic party has a shameful past in regards to slavery and the South, but ironically the two parties have flip flopped in many ways when it comes to racism.
Mike, you forgot to mention that many pro-segregation Southern democrats became Republicans after the Civil Right Bill because they felt more welcome in that party. Wouldn’t Lincoln spin in his grave if he knew, poor man.
And the article I reprinted (check out the citation, you will see it is not from an ideological site) was just to point out that this is not the first time in American history that bad economic times have made people anxious or that elections have been controversial or that people felt like the government was hopelessly corrupt. It was not meant to elevate or demonize a particular party, it was simply a history lesson. Your read it with your own ideological bent, Mike, or you would have seen that it was just history.
From history.com “THe democratic-republican party is an early political party in the U.S., originally led by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison; it was the forerunner of the present-day Democratic party, which name it formally adopted in 1828. When the party was originally conceived in the 1790s to oppose the Federalist party, it was known simply as the Republican party (but should not be confused with the modern party of that name). The Republicans came to power in 1800 with the election of Jefferson as president. About 1824, led by Andrew Jackson, they adopted the name Democratic-Republican party. By the time Jackson was elected president (1828), the name had been shortened to Democratic party.” Notice the sentence that says when it was originally formed in 1790 it was known simply as the Republican party.
kash: “Mike, the Republican party existed, but it was different than what we call the Republican party today. That is not propaganda, that is history 101. The piece I quoted was a history piece.”
So Wikipedia and every other book on history that speaks of the Republican Party is wrong. The Democrats whose founder was Thomas Jefferson, were known as the Democrat – Republicans. Republican from the stand point of believing in a Republic with shared powers between the National government and the States. The great debate at the time was over how strong the Central Government should be. Some thought its powers should be limited and other thought its powers should be expanded.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF TODAY WAS FOUNDED IN THE BREAK UP OF THE WHIG PARTY AND ITS FIRST CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT WAS ABE LINCOLN. This is FACT not fantasy.
kash: “Mike, you forgot to mention that many pro-segregation Southern democrats became Republicans after the Civil Right Bill because they felt more welcome in that party. Wouldn’t Lincoln spin in his grave if he knew, poor man.” Besides Strom Thurmond of SC, name the MANY.
kash: “But they were stilled called “Republican” You are splitting hairs. What they were called is irrelevant. The Democrats were split. It was a split within their own party. To suggest that these Republicans were the foundation of today’s Republican party is ludicrous and you know it.
You are promoting sheer propaganda…..i.e., lies.
kash; “Notice the sentence that says when it was originally formed in 1790 it was known simply as the Republican party.”
What difference does it make what the party was called. It could have been called the NAZI party but would that mean that the origins of the Nazis took place in early days of the creation of the US? Common kash, you know better. You can call Manure a Rose but it is still manure. These Republicans were the foundation of the Democrat party.
BTW, the current Democrat party is not the old National Democrat party of Truman, FDR, or even Kennedy. The current national Democrat party along with many in the Republican party (and this could be most in the Republican party) are statists that believe in big government. I oppose both national parties as they exist today. I support candidates like Ron Paul and now Peter Schiff running for Senate in Conn. because they want to return America to the people.
Continue with your blind faith in State. It has always been the state that has impoverished, enslaved and murdered the people. It has always done so in the name of doing what is best for the people.
kash: “that this is not the first time in American history that bad economic times have made people anxious or that elections have been controversial or that people felt like the government was hopelessly corrupt.”
Notice that many of “These bad times” took place within the time period of a central bank. Read up on your history of Jackson’s battle with the 2nd. National Bank. Biddle vowed to make Jackson pay and he did so by making the nation pay. Jefferson, the established founder of the Democrat Party, was President during the 1st National Bank. He opposed it but could do nothing because the Charter had not run out. Notice that both Central Banks had 20 year charters. The men that established the Federal Reserve provided no time limit on the Bank. They also provided the means by which the actions of the Fed could remain secret.
Only a complete Fool would support a system that has allowed the nation to run up a $12 trillion debt and over $60 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Only a complete moron would believe that a nation with a GDP of $13 trillion, that is based 72% on consumption, and who also has a large part of the population working for government producing nothing, will be able to grow its way out of this ENORMOUS DEBT.
kash, I am asking you to start thinking for yourself and stop absorbing the nonsense pumped out by the statists. The ship is sinking and we must take it back. You, I, all of us are on the same boat, and right now the government is punching more holes in the sides of the ship with the idea that they are letting the water out. What we are doing as a nation is making matter worse. TARP the bailouts, the Stimulous packages will sink us all. Cash for Clunkers is proving to be a big mistake. What stimulous it provided the auto companies (which will wear off and it will be back to no business as usual) took away from other retailers. You are blind to not see what is taking place before your very eyes.
George Washington predicted what would happen if the nation ever adopted a paper currency backed by nothing. What we are seeing take place today is the result of the nation not heeding his warning:
I am sanguine in the belief of the possibility that we may one day become a great commercial and flourishing nation. (America became an industrial giant in the second half of the 19th century and the first half of the 20th. But through the efforts of Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and Nixon America abandoned Precious metals and eventually relied on a pure Fiat currency in 1971.)
But if in the pursuit of the means we should unfortunately stumble again on unfunded paper money or any similar species of fraud, we shall assuredly give a fatal stab to our national credit in its infancy. Paper money will invariably operate in the body of politics as spirit liquors on the human body. They prey on the vitals and ultimately destroy them.”
“Paper money has had the effect in your state that it will ever have, to ruin commerce, oppress the honest, and open the door to every species of fraud and injustice.”
What Washington said, in paraphrase –
“If ever again our nation stumbles upon unfunded paper, it shall surely be like death to our body politic.
“To suggest that these Republicans were the foundation of today’s Republican party is ludicrous and you know it.” Mike! Go back and read my posts! I NEVER made that allusion, you READ it into the article! I am quite aware that there is no relation between the Republican party of today and the Republicans of 1790 to 1824ish when they started being sometimes called Democratic-Republicans. I simply cut and pasted an article about the situation of 1824 and how it is similar to today, nevermind what the parties were called.
If that article is propaganda, where are the factual errors? It was simply desribing the situation in 1824. I don’t understand you. You are so blinded by your need for America to collapse economically to be vindicated that you can not even read history objectively anymore.
Mike, read post 10 again without your bias against anything that I post. What is wrong with the article? It even says that the Radical Republicans became the Democratic Party and that the Nationalist Republicans would become the Whig party (see the final sentence!)
kash, in your original message the article you referenced did not make the distinction between the birth of the current Republican Party and the “experimentation” with the name that would eventually be the Democrat party. The Radicals mentioned were called Republicans but at this time the modern Republican party did not exist. Every history book I have ever read, every Encyclopedia ever printed has stated that the modern Republican Party came into existence in the early part of the 1850s. Before that the two political parties were the Democrats and the Whigs. In the early days of the Republic the divisions were between the Federalist and the Anti-Federalists.
Yes you eventually clarified the issue but only after I made it apparent that you had tried to mislead people reading your message.
kash: “I simply cut and pasted an article about the situation of 1824 and how it is similar to today, nevermind what the parties were called.” I can cut and paste also, and I know that anyone can cut and paste misrepresentations. Go back and read your original message. Someone unfamiliar with US history or anyone educated in government schools in the last 40 years, would easily associate the Republicans of the early 1800s with the modern Republican party.
BTW, where is your list of Segregationists that were once Democrats that moved to the Republican party. And by the way these have to be people that rose to promenant positions. Men like David Duke could call themselves Republicans but the segregationists were and are rejected by the party. Unlike the Democrats that honor one time KKK member Sen. Robert Byrd who a few years ago used the “N” word four times in an interview with one of the Networks.
I’m sorry, but how is it my fault if people do not know their history well enough to understand that references to Republicans pre 1850 is different from post 1850? And again, my object was not to say anything for or against Republicans, either the modern variety or the 1790-1824 variety, but to point out that the history of the United States has seen similar crises to those we fact today. It was YOU that decided my point was to somehow complain about Republicans, and went off on a tangent.
“Someone unfamiliar with US history or anyone educated in government schools in the last 40 years, would easily associate the Republicans of the early 1800s with the modern Republican party.” Then they didn’t read very carefully. As I pointed out, the article itself notes towards the end that the parties being spoken of later morphed into the Democratic and Whig party. And again, the point was not anything about the value of Republicans vs Democrats, but that the nations has faced unpopular wars and finanical collapses several times in its past, not just the last decade.
“BTW, where is your list of Segregationists that were once Democrats that moved to the Republican party.” Well, I suppose that if I had claimed that Democrats had always been perfect and Republicans had always been evil, I might have considered it. But that would be ridiculous. If I had lived 150 years ago, I might have been a Republican. If I had lived 200 years ago, I might have been a Federalist. It all depends on the time, who the candidates are, and the issues that I cared about the most. You are fighting an imaginary battle, Mike.
And as far as my comment about people in the SOuth who were made unhappy by Lyndon Johnson’s support of the Civil Rights bill becoming Republicans, that is an accepted fact. Not all of them did, but there was a definite shift in the breakdown of Republican vs Democratic in the white South demographically following the Civil Rights Bill.
One final note on Southern Democrats that turned to the Republican party. After the defeat of Jim Crow in the 1960s, the Democrat party began to lean even further to the left. I recall quite clearly the election of 1968. I was a Hubert Humphrey Democrat at the time. The conservative Republicans began to court Southern Democrats who were themselves conservatives as their party began to take a hard left turn. This was evident with the nomination of George McGovern in 1972. As politics turned decidedly away from race and more towards foreign and domestic policy many Southern Democrats shifted over to the Republican party, which favored a strong military, fiscal responsibility (this one is a joke but at least they paid lip service to it), and lower taxes. Southerns have a history of Conservative Christian values and the Republican Party offered them an alternative to the Pro Abortion, Pro Homosexual rights of the Democrat party.
kash, you cannot make the leap to the Segregationists beliefs of the Southern Democrats were welcomed by the Republican party. The Republican party, just like the Democrat party must accept anyone that registers to vote as a member of that party. It is what the party stands for that counts and the REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS NEVER STOOD FOR SEGREGATION…..NEVER, while the Democrats have 170 year history of supporting slavery, Jim Crow, and Segregation. It was only after the passage of the Voting Rights Act and other legislation that finally gave All Americans their civil rights did the Democrat party suddenly decide to become the champion of the underprivileged. Of course they did this while instituting the Welfare State that has so decimated poor families especially minorities.
As I have stated I am neither Republican nor Democrat and view both parties as responsible for our current state of affairs. First get the Fed under control via an annual audit then in time get rid of it altogether.
And don’t even pretend that I said that all Republicans are racists, or that there are no racists in the Democratic party. I was simply pointing out that the party dynamics and identity have changed many times in the history of this nation, over many issues.
kash: “people in the SOuth who were made unhappy by Lyndon Johnson’s support of the Civil Rights bill becoming Republicans, that is an accepted fact.”
I’ve already addressed this and it has to do with issues other than segregation. Southern Democrats were Conservative. The South is also known as the Bible belt. As the Democratic party moved more to the left, more an more Southern Democrats switched over to the Republican party. The reasons were varied but I doubt segregation was one of them since it was the Republicans that managed to pass LBJ’s Civil Rights Legislation.
You are the master of distortion kash.
Honestly, I would think it would be clear that the article wasn’t any kind of referendum on the Republican party since both sides back then were “Republicans” (radical versus nationalist). And the article doesn’t imply one side was right and one side wrong, it just gives the background of a War, a speculative booming economy that goes bust, and an election perceived to be corrupt. Really, Mike. And Henry Clay was on the docket to be a vice presidential pick for several of the opposing candidates (all of them running were SOME type of “Republican”, as the term was used at the time). I still don’t understand how one can read that article and get from it that the person was somehow criticizing Republicans, whether the modern variety (which is TOTALLY unrelated) or the circa 1824 variety (in which case you would have to say, WHICH Republicans, cause the whole lot of them were Republicans!)
“You are the master of distortion kash.” Me? You are arguing against a point that I didn’t even make.
“I’ve already addressed this and it has to do with issues other than segregation.” You mean other issues in addition to segregation.
Just out of curiosity, Mike. You are aware that the term “Liberal” as we use it now is totally different from how the term “Liberal” was used in late 18th century western society? I would hate to post something scholarly from the time our country was formed and have you freak out when you saw the word “liberal” and go off on a slanderous tangent again.
It was the party whose members established the KKK, and after Reconstruction denied blacks their Constitutional Rights.
Answer: Nonsense. The KKK requires all its members to be Bible believing evangelical Christians. The KKK was founded by and for Bible believers and no one else. Blaming the KKK on anyone but Christians or any entity other than Christianity with all its cultural prejudice and anti-Semitism is a big fat Christian lie. And Mike it was Christians who denied blacks their Constitutional rights. Would you like me to post some quotes from Protestant religious leaders of the day to back this up? They used the Bible to do it too. Better be a little more careful what you tell lies about Mike. I’m watching you.
Bernie, thanks for your attempt to help. But although Christians are implicated in the mistreatment of blacks in this country, they are equally implicated in the fight to abolish slavery AND the later civil rights movements. So do not make Mike’s mistake of viewing history through your own modern biases and convictions.
Kash,
It’s not Mike’s view of history it’s Gary DeMar’s view of history. I started posting on this blog after I read a couple of Mike/Paul’s posts that I recognized to be plagiarized word for word from DeMar’s website. So did another blogger here you know. Gary DeMar is a dangerous religious fanatic who is a leader of the religious cult Mike belongs to, the Reconstructionists. These people want to abolish Constitutional law in the United States and replace it with Old Testament law. They want to re-institute stoning people to death and list such crimes as homosexuality, divorce, abortion, atheism or being the member of another religion and disobedience to ones parents as crimes punishable by the death penalty. I’m not kidding. We can safely assume after all the months of Paul/Mike posting article after article after article from his religious leader’s website that he agrees with all of DeMar’s insane ideas. Demar hoards gold on his compound where he lives which is surrounded by barbed wire and an electronic fence. He’s nutty as a fruitcake and it would all be a big joke if there weren’t people like Mike who believe everything DeMar tells them to.
Bernie, I know and I share your concerns. There is a connection between the Gary DeMar crowd, the “Traditions of Men” crowd, and “The Family” (see Jeff Sharlett’s recent book). But I share your concerns as a believer troubled by the obvious misuse of religion for political power and economic gain (personal gain specifically). I don’t think the answer is to combat bad religion with no religion. The answer is to combat bad religion with the perfect love of Christ. It is what Jesus himself did when he was here “in the flesh”, and what he asked us to continue to do.
kash: “Just out of curiosity, Mike. You are aware that the term “Liberal” as we use it now is totally different from how the term “Liberal” was used in late 18th century western society?”
I am fully aware that liberal once meant a person that believed in the rights of the individual and getting government out of the way. I am a liberal using the old definition.
Now back to the crises faced by the US at various times in our history. You will note that most were short lived and many of the worst ones took place during periods of time where we had a national bank. Also keep in mind that gold and silver coin circulated even during the early days of the Federal Reserve. I would advocate for a competitive monetary system based on Gold and Silver, if Legal Tender Laws were repealed. I would bet that over time the Fed’s funny money would be rejected in very short order. I would also bet that the government would bring its budget under control, deficits would be reduced dramatically and the welfare state would disappear. Capital would flow to the private sector and the economy would expand.
I am neither Dem. or Repub. Both political parties have brought us to this economic crisis which is now in its 2nd. year and looks to last much longer. I do believe, although I pray I am wrong, that this one is going to be worse than the Great Depression.
If we had a sound monetary system, the government would have to TAX the citizens in order to spend and politicians know that raising taxes is a death sentence to their terms in office.
kash: “Bernie, I know and I share your concerns. There is a connection between the Gary DeMar crowd, the “Traditions of Men” crowd, ”
What did you mean “Traditions of Men” crowd? If you are referring to Doug Tjaden as a political hack then you have not been to his website or you are drinking the same stuff Bernie is on. Now I do not know Gary Demar’s political persuasion and I did recent get his paper back “Is Jesus Coming Soon” which I purchased at a Goodwill. Paul put me on to DeMar’s writing in one of his messages, but DeMar and Tjaden come from totally different points of view. Doug for example believes in the Rapture while DeMar is one of the primary opponents to this ideology.
Doug does not engage in politics. His ministry aims at looking at certain parts of scripture and commenting on our monetary system.
You have a habit of throwing in these little darts and when confronted you say, “I didn’t mean this or that.”
Bernie will do anything, say anything, lie through his teeth to make a point. I am beginning to see why you are one Christian he can agree with.
This from the Desk of Doug Casey, a man I respect a great deal and one who has a solid grip on the economy, the Fed / our monetary system, and politics. Pay very close attention to his last sentence, “Not that there’s any real difference between the two parties anymore ”
“Why do conservatives seem to have this warm and fuzzy feeling for George W. Bush? I can only speculate it’s because Bush liked to talk a lot about freedom and traditional American values, and did so in such an ungrammatical way that it made him seem sincere. Bush’s tendency to fumble words and concepts contrasted to Clinton’s eloquence, which made him look “slick.”
I’m forced to the conclusion that what “conservatives” like about Bush is his style, such as it was. Because the only good thing I can recall that Bush ever did was to shepherd through some tax cuts. But even these were targeted and piecemeal, tossing bones to favored interests, rather than any principled abolition of any levies or a wholesale cut in rates.
Is it possible that Bush was actually the worst president ever? I’d say he’s a strong contender. He started out with a gigantic lie — that he would cut the size of government, reduce taxes, and stay out of foreign wars — and things got much worse from there. Let’s look at just some of the highpoints in the catalog of disasters the Bush regime created.
* No Child Left Behind. Forget about abolishing the Department of Education. Bush made the federal government a much more intrusive and costly part of local schools.
* Project Safe Neighborhoods. A draconian law that further guts the 2nd Amendment, like 20,000 other unconstitutional gun laws before it.
* Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit. This the largest expansion of the welfare state since LBJ and will cost the already bankrupt Medicare system trillions more.
* Sarbanes-Oxley Act. Possibly the most expensive and restrictive change to the securities laws since the ’30s. A major reason why companies will either stay private or go public outside the U.S.
* Katrina. A total disaster of bureaucratic mismanagement, featuring martial law.
* Ownership Society. The immediate root of the current financial crisis lies in Bush’s encouragement of easy credit to everybody and inflating the housing market.
* Nationalizations and Bailouts. In response to the crisis he created, he nationalized Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and passed by far the largest bailouts in U.S. history (until OBAMA!).
* Free-Speech Zones. Originally a device for keeping war protesters away when Bush appeared on camera, they’re now used to herd.
* The Patriot Act. This 132-page bill, presented for passage only 45 days after 9/11 (how is it possible to write something of that size and complexity in only 45 days?) basically allows the government to do whatever it wishes with its subjects. Warrantless searches. All kinds of communications monitoring. Greatly expanded asset forfeiture provisions.
* The War on Terror. The scope of the War on Drugs (which Bush also expanded) is exceeded only by the war on nobody in particular but on a tactic. It’s become a cause of mass hysteria and an excuse for the government doing anything.
* Invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Bush started two completely pointless, counterproductive, and immensely expensive wars, neither of which has any prospect of ending anytime soon.
* Dept. of Homeland Security. This is the largest and most dangerous of all agencies, now with its own gigantic campus in Washington, DC. It will never go away and centralizes the functions of a police state.
* Guantanamo. Hundreds of individuals, most of them (like the Uighurs recently in the news) guilty only of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, are incarcerated for years. A precedent is set for anyone who is accused of being an “enemy combatant” to be completely deprived of any rights at all.
* Abu Ghraib and Torture. After imprisoning scores of thousands of foreign nationals, Bush made it a U.S. policy to use torture to extract information, based on a suspicion or nothing but a guard’s whim. This is certainly one of the most damaging things to the reputation of the U.S. ever. It says to the world, “We stand for nothing.”
* The No-Fly List. His administration has placed the names of over a million people on this list, and it’s still growing at about 20,000 a month. I promise it will be used for other purposes in the future.
* The TSA. Somehow the Bush cabal found 50,000 middle-aged people who were willing to go through their fellow citizens’ dirty laundry and take themselves quite seriously. God forbid you’re not polite to them.
* Farm Subsidies. Farm subsidies are the antithesis of the free market. Rather than trying to abolish or cut them back, Bush signed a record $190 billion farm bill.
* Legislative Free Ride. And he vetoed less of what Congress did than any other president in history.
The only reason I can imagine why a person who is not “evil” (to use a word he favored), completely uninformed, or thoughtless would favor Bush is because he wasn’t a Democrat. Not that there’s any real difference between the two parties anymore “
What I meant was that Doug Tjaden and his “biblical economics” does have some similarities with The Family and Gary DeMar’s American Vision. It does not stop at just wanting gold to be the only currency, or even gold-backed fiat money. It does venture into a sort of Christian Theocracy that I do not believe our founders would approve of, not would it be constitutional. THis is a point that you and I disagree upon, so it should not be a surprise to you.
kash: “It does not stop at just wanting gold to be the only currency, or even gold-backed fiat money. It does venture into a sort of Christian Theocracy that I do not believe our founders would approve of, not would it be constitutional.”
The Constitution prohibits government from just printing money, which is why the statists had to establish the Federal Reserve, which IS NOT A BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT. For someone who writes so much you seem to know so little. The Constitution is very clear as to what is money, it is gold and silver.
And while we are at it, I could find common beliefs between Nazis, Communists, Democrats, and Republicans but would it be fair to put them all in the same camp?
You obviously have not visited Doug’s website and have certainly not listened to his videos, which mherman did. I give her credit for being willing to listen to another point of view that is backed totally by scripture. Doug is a pastor with a specific ministry on the web. He also preaches on other subjects at his church and you can listen to what he has to say on a variety of topics just as you would any other preacher.
How dare you mention Doug in the same breath as “Establishing a Christian Theocracy”? How dare you. At this point in time I do not know whether to doubt your intelligence or your Christian values.
Doug is very clear where he is coming from when it comes to the issue of money and the Bible. You may disagree with him but to suggest, which you did, that he wishes for an sort of Christian Theocracy is ludicrous at best and insidious at its worse.
Mike, when I read Doug Tjaden’s blog I just get the feeling that he is sincere but misguided. For instance, he thinks Glen Beck “gets it”. I think Glen Beck is a raving lunatic.
And for the last time, I did watch his video, but found it unconvincing. I know you find that impossible to believe, but there you are.
Doug Tjaden thinks the Bible clearly spells out an economic system that we are all supposed to follow: a gold based economy and no federal reserve or central bank. How is that not some sort of Theocracy?
kash: “Mike, when I read Doug Tjaden’s blog I just get the feeling that he is sincere but misguided. For instance, he thinks Glen Beck “gets it”. I think Glen Beck is a raving lunatic.”
So according to your statement, if a person agrees with another that you dislike or think a lunatic, on even one issue they are completely discredited. You may find this hard to believe but there are issues in which I agree with Democrats, even agreed with Barak Obama on. Should Conservatives now reject all I say because I agreed with the opposition on a particular issue. Come on. I can see where this is going which is nowhere. Now you will nit pic every tiny detail of Doug’s website to discredit his basic message. Deal with the issue at hand.
kash: “And for the last time, I did watch his video, but found it unconvincing. I know you find that impossible to believe, but there you are.”
People that wish to remain ignorant cannot even be convinced that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west….oh I forgot that statement is incorrect as it suggests that the sun moves while the earth stands still.
kash: “Doug Tjaden thinks the Bible clearly spells out an economic system that we are all supposed to follow: a gold based economy and no federal reserve or central bank. How is that not some sort of Theocracy?”
Good heavens how could any person with an I.Q in the double digits misrepresent Doug’s message as GROSSLY as you have. His message is Clear. Let me restate it for you:
The Bible, you know God’s word, says, “Diverse weights and diverse measures both alike are an abomination to the Lord.” It says it 4 times in 3 different books of the OT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS PRINCIPLE?
Fiat currency can be created out of thin air by the Central Banks and to a great extent by all banks through fractional reserve banking. Since each additional dollar in circulation depreciates each existing dollar the value of the dollars held by the people declines. THEREFORE, THE US DOLLAR IS A DIVERSE MEASURE and AN ABOMINATION UNTO THE LORD.
That is the heart and soul of his message. He then goes on to instruct us on HONORING GOD and how that should be done.
It is obvious that you have not listened to his 14 or so videos.
You have now set in your mind that Doug is proposing we establish a Theocracy and nothing will change your mind. In this sense it is clear why you and Bernie get along so well. Little minds think alike.
By the way, I guess the late Murray Rothbard was a Theocrat. You can include Dr. Marc Faber, Peter Schiff, David Bond, David Morgan, Jason Hommel, Doug Casey, Darryl Schoon, John Loeffler, Jim Puplava, Eric and David Coffin, the Aden Sisters, John Doody, Gary Dorsch, Jim Willie, Bill Fleckenstein, Bob Moriarty, James Turk, Bill Murphy, Roger Weigand, Clive Maund, Przemyslaw Radomski, Adam Hamilton, G. Edward Griffin…….I could probable double the size of this list all as Theocrats because all believe the Federal Reserve is the basic problem and should be done away with. They all advocate a return to a hard asset backed monetary system which is primarily Gold.
There is just one problem with this Theocracy conspiracy. These men represent many different religions and live in other countries. What Theocracy would they establish?
Your statements about a Theocracy related to Doug’s work are as insane as Bernie’s suggestions that Christianity is responsible for all of the evil that has ever existed in the world.
kash, in my book, which does not mean much to you I am sure, your credibility has hit rock bottom. Bernie’s is totally dead and buried, yours is coming mighty close.
kash: “And for the last time, I did watch his video” HIS VIDEO???? There is a whole series of videos where he refers constantly to scripture and shows how the diverse measure in currency cheats people. All you did was listen to his introductory video and that’s it. Six minutes and you came to the conclusion that Doug is a Theocrat. I would guess that the last thing you did was listen with an OPEN MIND.
I suggest you go back to his website, click on the link in the center of the page referring to his ministry. Then on the left side of the page click on Video Series. I believe he has completed about 14 short videos that walk you though history and what the Biblical worldview is.
I also suggest you take an hour to watch G. Edward Griffin’s video “Fiat Empire” which is on Doug’s home page. This video is completely secular in nature. Just thought I would tell you before you accused Mr. Griffin of wanting to establish a theocracy.
I firmly believe that before this year is out the US dollar will break below 76 on the USDX and start to challenge the 72 support level. This will mark the beginning of hyperinflation. I just wonder what kash will say as prices for basic necessities begin to soar. I know what the LEFT will do. They will blame the Greedy corporation, especially oil companies, and greedy merchants that raise prices. Of course they will not blame themselves for breaking the back of the US dollar by printing it to oblivion in order to support their banker friends and continue to fund pet projects.
kash, I am sure you will repeat the LEFT’s talking points and refuse to accept the fact that it is our darling government that is impoverishing us. Blame will also be pointed at previous Republican Administrations which I will agree are responsible, but no more responsible than Democratic Administrations.
kash, will you join in the call for even more and bigger government to solve the problems that government itself has created? Probably….you are an ideologue…..your faith is firmly planted in the left wing of the Democratic Party. Remember what Lenin called those living in the free West that supported his revolution….USEFUL IDIOTS. I for one will never be a useful idiot.
Of course there are some that are just plain idiots.
MIke, you are unable to accept any criticism of Doug Tjaden, and react to even the most measured statements that are anything besides wholehearted agreement with him with extreme vitriol. I think your slavish devotion to his ideas borders on worship. That is a reflection on you, not him.
And I watched Fiat Empire back when Doug Tjaden was on the show. I can watch all the videos you want, but they start from a fundamental premise that I view as flawed.
BTW, I do not think any member of the Austrian School of Economics is a theocrat. Only if they claim their economic system is from God do I count them as theocrats.
kash: “MIke, you are unable to accept any criticism of Doug Tjaden, and react to even the most measured statements that are anything besides wholehearted agreement with him with extreme vitriol”
WRONG AGAIN kash. I have stated that a new currency based on a Gold Certificate Ratio would be established and would work. Doug believes we should return to gold coin only. I do agree that Doug is correct that gold coin would be the best system, but I do not see that as a possibility in our life time. A gold certificate ratio would at least put the breaks on government printing money without limit and it could be used as a start to gold coin which should also be allowed to circulate.
kash: “they start from a fundamental premise that I view as flawed.” What is flawed about taking away the power from a handful of men to regulate the economy (a central planning system which has been proven to fail and bring great misery on the people) and giving it to the people themselves?
Apparently you believe that the government or some agency should be the one to plan the economy. Good heavens you would have fit in perfectly in the old Soviet Politburo.
kash: “I think your slavish devotion to his ideas borders” My devotion is to the word of God and I have not found a single thing Doug has stated that does not agree with God’s Word. Let me know where Doug and God are on opposite sides of the fence. Before you jump on the love of money routine, this is not the issue. The issue is diverse weights and measures.
kash: “I do not think any member of the Austrian School of Economics is a theocrat. Only if they claim their economic system is from God do I count them as theocrats.”
Oh, I see, so you object to Doug’s using the Bible to support his point of view. Everything is hunky doory so long as one does NOT use the Bible. Great words coming from a person that says they are a Christian.
kash: “I do not think any member of the Austrian School of Economics is a theocrat. ”
Not all of the people I mentioned that support a sound currency come from the Austrian School. The whole notion that the issuance of currency should NOT BE PLACED IN THE HANDS OF A FEW MEN is just plain common sense.
“The whole notion that the issuance of currency should NOT BE PLACED IN THE HANDS OF A FEW MEN is just plain common sense.” Or is it Biblical? Which is it?
“Everything is hunky doory so long as one does NOT use the Bible” That is not what I said. I said that IF you think your economic or political system come straight from the Bible, it is by definition a theocracy.
“The issue is diverse weights and measures.” You have taken ONE verse in the Bible and used that to develop an entire worldview (well, borrowed someone elses). That is the faulty premise.
Mike, the problem is obvious. I disagree with you about your (well, Doug Tjaden’s) ECONOMIC convictions and you equate that with my being a bad Christian (in addition to the other names you have called me, such as an idiot). Do you not see how your attitude might be counter to the spirit of the constitution (guraranteeing free expression of ideas and religion), not to mention the spirit of brotherly love spoken of often in the New Testament? Do you not see that it is THAT component of your beliefs that I find objectionable, even moreso than the specifics of your beliefs about the Federal Reserve system?
kash: ““The whole notion that the issuance of currency should NOT BE PLACED IN THE HANDS OF A FEW MEN is just plain common sense.” Or is it Biblical? Which is it?”
It is both. The Bible is full of common sense.
kash: “That is not what I said. I said that IF you think your economic or political system come straight from the Bible, it is by definition a theocracy.”
There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government. For example Moses set up a representative democracy through the tribes of Israel and the government was to serve the people. Unfortunately our government believes it should serve the people more like serving us up like a slice of meat loaf.
kash: ““The issue is diverse weights and measures.” You have taken ONE verse in the Bible and used that to develop an entire worldview (well, borrowed someone elses). That is the faulty premise.”
Sorry kash but diverse weights and measure are mentioned 4 times in three different books of the OT. How many things are an abomination unto the Lord. If you had watched all of Doug’s video you would have known this as he references all four besides many others dealing with how our current is EVIL according to scripture.
kash, let’s end this discussion. Your eyes will be opened, unless of course you decide to keep them wide shut, as the US dollar flames out into oblivion and you, your family, your neighbors, your church, and your nation is impoverished. Then and only then will you have the opportunity to open your eyes and see what Doug and I have been trying to teach you. NO FIAT CURRENCY, and whenever a government has debased its currency, THE OUTCOME HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME. Namely Civil Unrest, poverty, increase crime, hunger, and death for those less able to provide for themselves (the elderly).
As for Doug, my next message will be a repeat of much of what I have said in light of scripture. BTW, you never stated where you believe Doug gets the Bible wrong.
For Christians interested in why most of us have been duped by the system, which promotes debt and punishes the saver.
Have God’s people Adopted Worldly values? Are we in habitual sin.
It is NOT “THE LOVE OF MONEY.” IT IS THE LOVE OF STUFF. Jesus warns us not to be of the world. He condemns the Pharisees for their love of traditions thus nullifying God’s law. We are told repeatedly how to behave as Christians, and yet we have adopted the Traditions of Men, in this case the world system, and in doing so have become unequally yoked and no longer a complete servant of our Lord.
Here is what scripture says.
1. The borrower is slave to the lender (no exceptions). Rom.13:8 Prov.22:7
2. We (Christians) have been bought with a price, the blood of Christ. 1Cor.6: 19, 20
3. We are to be servants of the one who purchased us. 1Cor.7: 23
4. We are to work for HIS glory and HE will reward us according to HIS wisdom. We are to depend on the Lord for all our blessings.
5. God hates (an abomination) diverse weights and measures (mentioned at least 4 different times in the OT.) Prov. 20:10, 23; Deu.25: 13-25; Lev.19: 35-37
6. We reap what we sow. God is not mocked. Gal. 6:7
7. The righteous will suffer with the unrighteous.
8. For everything there is a season and one should read the signs of the season and prepare. So in the season of plenty we should save up for the lean years, like Joseph told Egypt to do. There is nothing new under the sun; what is today has been and what will be has already taken place (man does not learn and that is why history repeats….it is the cycles some economist speak of.) Ecc.1:9-11; 3: 1-9 Include Ecc. 1-3
9. The prudent man sees the evil and prepares while the simple or blind get punished. Prov.22:3
10. You cannot serve God and mammon (the world and worldly things). You cannot serve 2 masters for you will love one and hate the other. Matt.6:24; Luke 16:13
11. We are not to be unequally yoked. 2 Cor.6:14
12. We are not to have other gods before the Lord. We are not to make idols of anything. Exodus 20:3, 4
So here is what many,make that most, Christians have done with Gods word. FIRST and FOREMOST let me start with this statement:
We Christians have used credit to attain the things we want. This includes the church, as most are in debt paying for new buildings / expansion. I have no statistics on the above statements, but believe I am accurate in what I am saying. Even the most conservative Christians borrow from the bank to buy automobiles and homes. SO MOST BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN CHURCHES AND MOST CHRISTIANS HAVE VIOLATED OR IGNORED GOD’S WORD REGARDING CREDIT AND DEBT.
BY BORROWING MONEY….USING CREDIT
1. we no longer depend on the Lord for our blessings, instead we depend on Bank America to meet our needs / desires. Violates #4
2. through debt we are unequally yoked. The money the bank makes off our interest payments is borrowed by people starting business that may be unholy like porn shops, strip joints, liquor stores, etc. Violates #11
3. by going into debt we can not serve the Lord totally for we are now slaves to the lender. God tells us that we cannot serve two masters for we will love one and hate the other. QUESTION: How many Christians are now in a bind because they are having difficulty paying bills (credit cards, bigger house, new / fancy cars) while the church asks for tithes and offerings. Violates #1,2,3,4, 10, 11, 12
4. we been have bought into the notion that our currency is money, when it is a debt obligation. I have discussed this with numerous Christians, and I would say that the vast majority refuse to believe that the US dollar (any fiat currency) is a wicked system, devised by men to rob the many of their hard earned wages. The Bible is ever so clear on the issue of diverse weights and measures and “both alike are an abomination to the Lord.” Violates #5
5. we depend on the accumulation of stuff for our sense of well being or success. The new van, bigger house, new bass boat, dinners out, etc. can easily become our idol…our new god, but just as the pagan gods ruined Israel, these new gods have ruined God’s people. I am not saying that we should not have the new car, bigger home, bass boat, etc. I am saying that we should pay cash for it, and never withhold money to pay for them. The desire for stuff (bigger house, new car, fancy vacations, etc.) can lead to the sins of “lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life.” Violates # 12 plus numerous other scriptural verses.
THEREFORE GOD IS BRINGING THE WHOLE SYSTEM DOWN, especially the evil monetary system. God, in his infinite mercy and wisdom gives us an escape from the coming collapse of our money. First of all we must REPENT. We must pay off debt and no longer rely on the money lenders. We must build a financial ark like Noah did to protect us from the coming storm. Part of that ark is to exchange MAN’S MONEY for GOD’S MONEY (gold and silver.) Adhere to # 9
When I talk to Christians I usually get one of two responses:
1. The signs are all there, Jesus is coming back (most are referring to the rapture.) When I tell them that even if it were so, Jesus told us not to try to guess his coming. We are to be ready by our continued labor of love for the Lord. Acts
2. God is in control therefore there is no need to worry or do anything. My response is, “I did not know God was our cosmic servant, besides God does not reward those that have been out of HIS will and we have been out of His will. Also consider that the Bible says that the righteous will suffer with the unrighteous.” Violates # 6, 7, 9,
Jesus tells us to be salt and light. How can we be either if we adopt the traditions of the world and ignore part of God’s word. Anyone that trust a fiat currency (the USD or the British Pound Sterling) is trusting in the goodness of man, and we know what God has to say about our good nature and inborn righteousness. God’s judgment on the nation will punish all including the righteous.
When it comes to behavior on this issue, I believe most Christians are no different than the average Joe Six Pack that lives in the world.
At the core of nearly all our economic problems today is the Federal Reserve, a wicked ungodly institution if ever there was one. Our fiat monetary system, by its very existence, is evil. Like a pornographic picture, our money is inherently evil, there is nothing good about it.
Gold and silver were placed on this earth by God. Ex.2: 11 As part of His creation they are inherently good, not evil. Man has used them for evil purposes but they themselves are not evil, unlike fiat money. Whenever man has been free to benefit from the fruits of his labor and gold and silver were used as the monetary base, nations and people have prospered.
Whenever man has debased money, either by coin clipping or adding base metals to coins or by establishing fiat money, the initial economic response has been prosperity, but the prosperity is short lived and in the end the results have been economic ruin, poverty, civil unrest, and the destruction of the life savings of the people.
Conclusion:
The world tells us that having stuff is the sign of success. We have come to believe that debt is not only necessary but desirable. How else can we buy a home or a new car without going into debt. Besides we must build up our credit by first going into debt. All this is what the world says not what the Bible says. At the core of all this is a monetary system that steals from people and enslaves them.
We should adhere to Psalm 31, especially verse 3.
1. In thee O Lord, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in they righteousness.
2. Bow down thine ear to me; deliver me speedily: be thou my strong rock, for an house of defense to save me.
3. For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name’s sake lead me, and guide me.
4. Pull me out of the net that they have laid privily for me: for thou art my strength.
kash, pay close attention to this part of my message, “God hates (an abomination) diverse weights and measures (mentioned at least 4 different times in the OT.) Prov. 20:10, 23; Deu.25: 13-25; Lev.19: 35-37
Doug and my Biblical Worldview is not based on one sentence in the Bible as you stated.
“For example Moses set up a representative democracy through the tribes of Israel and the government was to serve the people.” What? That seems like a bit of a stretch. I don’t remember them voting on the 10 Commandments, for example. “There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government.” Well, that depends on what you mean. THere are no direct quotes in the Constitution, for example. And there is certainly no indication that the Constitution is a religious document in the sense that it came directly from Biblical mandates.
“God hates (an abomination) diverse weights and measures (mentioned at least 4 different times in the OT.) Prov. 20:10, 23; Deu.25: 13-25; Lev.19: 35-37
Oh, its mentioned FOUR times. Well then, I stand corrected. Obviously it is the most important message of the Bible and I should interpret all other verses AND my political views and economic theory according to it.
Remember, Mike, that you are also requiring that I make the ideological leap that all forms of fiat money are equivalent to the dishonest trading practice of using diverse weights and measures. If that is the case, then any type of currency exchange rate becomes evil. That means the entire world would be required to use a single type of money….which is what I thought the right wing is accusing Obama of secretly desiring. So forgive me if I am a bit confused.
Here is a different interpretation on how we should apply the Biblical admonishments against dishonest scales and differing weights and measures to modern life, Mike. http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2005/12/double-standardsthe-abomination-of.html
Just something to consider.
There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government. For example Moses set up a representative democracy through the tribes of Israel and the government was to serve the people.
Answer: Sure. Moses. Moses is no more real than the Tooth Fairy. Where’s the historical or archaeological evidence for the existence this person or the Jews ever even being in Egypt? The Jewish people didn’t even exist until the eighth century BCE, about 500 years after the supposed time of Moses. Only a person who is totally ignorant of history and the definition of democracy could believe such a load of Christian nonsense. There are no democratic societies pictured anywhere in the Bible and democracy is a Greek word. There’s nothing but theocracies pictured in the Bible which to a Christian fundamentalist are the same as a democracies.
The real reason religious fanatics like Mike and his religious leader Gary DeMar want to make gold the only currency should be obvious to any student of history. All wars that haven’t been fought over religion have been fought over natural resources. Gold is a natural resource and if it were made a universal currency this would bring out the kind of chaos and wars the Christian fundamentalists hope will bring about the return of Jesus Christ. Sure let’s make a natural resource a currency so we can invade other countries and take their gold. That’s what this Christian gold nonsense is really all about.
kash: “Oh, its mentioned FOUR times. Well then, I stand corrected. Obviously it is the most important message of the Bible and I should interpret all other verses AND my political views and economic theory according to it.”
Gee I thought all of scripture was useful for instruction. Guess I was wrong. Besides, Doug goes into detail how our current system fails to meet God’s standards. He quotes Old and New Testaments. Obviously you have not watched his video series and I doubt you are interested in doing so.
kash: “I don’t remember them voting on the 10 Commandments, for example. “There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government.” Well, that depends on what you mean. THere are no direct quotes in the Constitution, for example. And there is certainly no indication that the Constitution is a religious document in the sense that it came directly from Biblical mandates.”
The framers in their letters often referred to scripture. While the Bible does not say how the 12 tribes were to be represented it was a representative form of government. I did make a leap by using the word democracy.
As for the Bible not being in the Constitution most historians consider the link between the Declaration and the Constitution. The Declaration is part of the foundation of our nation and it does talk about a Creator. The Constitution also says, “in the year of our Lord.” Which Lord is it talking about? Then the President is to have Sunday’s off. Why Sunday? Why not Friday or Saturday?
If you go to the Supreme Court Moses appears numerous times, I think over 12, on or in the Building. I guess the designer had a Moses crush.
The President of the US takes his oath of office on the Bible. Presidents throughout history have mentioned the God of the Bible in speeches, especially in times of crisis. Go pull up a version of FDR’s speech to the nation on D-Day.
The very first document in American History, the Mayflower Compact starts off “In the name of God” then goes on to mention Jesus Christ, and the establishment of the Christian Church in the New World.
Yeh, I guess you are right. The Bible and Christianity have very little to do with the Constitution and American History. It must have been the Muslims that set up our Shariah (sp?) Law.
kash: “Just something to consider.” Ok so what is your point. There are many ways to interpret these passages which by the way no offer at least two more comments of diverse weights and measures. The writer is just using these passages in another context. To say that these passages only refer to what the author is saying is a stretch to say the least.
Go to the passages in Deu. and Lev. I gave you. There is no doubt as to what the author intends.
You are the master at obfuscating. Talking to you is a waste of time. Like I said, when you see the misery imposed on the people by our loving government, I am sure you will blame everyone except the idols you worship, the Statists in Big Government.
“Go to the passages in Deu. and Lev. I gave you. There is no doubt as to what the author intends.” I agree. And it is not the evil of fiat money or a central banking system.
kash: “I agree. And it is not the evil of fiat money or a central banking system.”
So the Bible must specify EVERY evil. Jesus tells us that it is sin for a man to lust after a woman. So in your book when women go to male strip clubs and lust after men, this is not sin, since Jesus was speaking about men lusting.
There is no discussing this issue with you. You mind is made up; the door is slammed shut and that is it. Like I said watch the USDX and when the dollar breaks 76 on its way to 72 the wheels of hyperinflation will BEGIN TO TURN. Below 72 the next stop for the USD is 62 at which point the government will begin considering a new currency. At 52 they will be forced to act as hyperinflation will be in run away mode. I just wonder what the exchange rate will be. Of course by then the elderly will have seen their life savings wiped out as prices will have soared out of control.
Of course the statists will blame everyone but themselves very much like the Germans did in their hyperinflation. The Nazis took that ball and ran with it, finally convincing the German people that it was the Jewish bankers and foreign interest that had so ruined the nation.
No, Mike, its not that the Bible has to spell out every evil, but I am not going to accept your ECONOMIC opinions based on your INTERPRETATION of what the Bible says. That’s all. So you may post until you are blue in the face, and bemoan my lack of agreement with your ECONOMIC predictions but you should not accuse me of ignoring what is “clearly” written in the Bible because, as i have pointed out, one may interpret the modern application of dishonest scales and measures in other ways than that the Federal Reserve is the source of all our financial woes.
You know how you accuse the pre-tribbers of believing in something first and then going to the Bible and looking for support for their preexisting belief? That is how I view your very strong opinions about the Federal Reserve. I think you became convinced of the evil of the Federal Reserve, and therefore when you read the Bible you see confirmation of that belief that isn’t necessarily there. I am willing ot admit that you might be right about your economic theories, only time will tell, and I personally think (based on history and evidence) that you are wrong. But even if you are right, I still don’t think that it is because the Bible says fiat money is evil. I think the Bible says greed and dishonesty are evil, and we have plenty of that in our modern economic system. However, no matter what economic system we adopt, greed and dishonesty will be alive and well and will always have to be regulated and limited to the best of our ability. You think a strict gold based system will limit greed and dishonesty more than a non-specie backed currency. I think that if we had not freed ourselves from gold back in the Great Depression we would have been much slower to recover and would have had difficulty mustering the economic strength to win World War II. Our disagreement is not about the Bible, but about our interpretation of history and the best course forward based on known and unknown kinks in the current system.
“As for the Bible not being in the Constitution most historians consider the link between the Declaration and the Constitution. The Declaration is part of the foundation of our nation and it does talk about a Creator. The Constitution also says, “in the year of our Lord.” Which Lord is it talking about? Then the President is to have Sunday’s off. Why Sunday? Why not Friday or Saturday?
If you go to the Supreme Court Moses appears numerous times, I think over 12, on or in the Building. I guess the designer had a Moses crush.
The President of the US takes his oath of office on the Bible. Presidents throughout history have mentioned the God of the Bible in speeches, especially in times of crisis. Go pull up a version of FDR’s speech to the nation on D-Day.” All this proves is that we are nation populated by a majority of Christians, that our founders were mostly Christians (although not united by creed), and that we continue to be very comfortable speaking of God in public. All of this is BECAUSE the Constitution is a secular document, and that no particular religion or denomination was specified or even indirectly implied in its (human) creation.
Hmm, previous post is confusing. All of the words are MIkes until the last sentences, which are my comment: “All this proves is that we are nation populated by a majority of Christians, that our founders were mostly Christians (although not united by creed), and that we continue to be very comfortable speaking of God in public. All of this is BECAUSE the Constitution is a secular document, and that no particular religion or denomination was specified or even indirectly implied in its (human) creation.” (Formatting is tricky on this site!)
Mike, you stated “There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government.” I think it would be a useful exercise if you could list some specific parts of our Constitution and what part of the Bible they came from. I hear this assertion a lot, that the constitution was based on the Bible, to the point that some people actually think the Bible is referenced in the Constitution. If you read discussions from the time of the ratification of the Constitution, you will find that many men of the cloth were very frustrated with the framers BECAUSE there was no mention of the Bible in the Constitution.
I firmly believe that Jesus does not want his message to be politicized. He offers salvation to all political factions, all nations, all ethnicities. Any attempt to claim that He supports a particular country, political ideology, or economic theory is to put conditions on salvation that He himself most vehemently denied. As Christians, we may say that our beliefs about Jesus influence us to support a particular country, economic theoury, or political party, but to then extrapolate that God Himself supports a particular country, economic theory, or political party is hubris and borders on blasphemy. I think Jesus wants me to take care of the poor. I think one of the ways that can be done in our country is through government programs, imperfect as they inevitably will be. But I do not claim that Jesus is specifically for medicaid, because Medicaid is a secular program run by a secular government. But nor do I think Jesus is AGAINST Medicaid. Jesus is for helping the poor. It is up to us to decide how best to follow this commandment.
Mike, you stated “There is an awful lot of Bible in our Constitution and philosophy of Government.” I think it would be a useful exercise if you could list some specific parts of our Constitution and what part of the Bible they came from.
Answer: While there are no biblical prohibitions against rape, child abuse, slavery, wars and the unethical treatment of prisoners and many other crimes, no prohibitions against abortion either, the Bible actually condones and regulates these things, God did give us some every important commands: “You must not plough with an ox and a donkey together” “You must not wear clothing woven part of wool, part of linen” – Deut 21:10-11.
Gee Mike I wonder why our country has laws against rape, child abuse, slavery, the unethical treatment of prisoners and other crimes the Bible condones and regulates. There are no laws against these things in your holy book of magical booginesses. Why is that? Where are the laws against wearing polyester clothes and plowing fields with two different animals in our Constitution Mike? Are you going to sit there and tell us that plowing a field with two different animals and wearing polyester clothes is worse than rape, slavery, child abuse or water boarding? Are you going to sit there and tell us the creator of the universe came up with these stupid obviously man-made prohibitions about plowing fields and wearing clothes? Just how petty is this God of your Mike?
“Men rarely (if ever) managed to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child.” – Robert A. Heinlein
Anyone familiar with the Pimco funds know that the people that run them are more than reputable. Bill Gross has been called Mr. Bond for his knowledge of the Bond market. You may find this story interesting as it goes hand in hand with much of what I have been saying. By my count we have 80 days to go before the USD starts is decline to its eventual oblivion:
PIMCO: Dollar Supremacy Is Coming To An End
Joe Weisenthal|Aug. 19, 2009, 6:38 AM
PIMCO portfolio manager Curtis Mewbourne is getting a lot of attention for a new report predicting the long-term demise of the dollar, or at least its end as the undisputed reserve currency.
This kind of stuff is great for sensational headlines, though Mewbourne’s own argument isn’t particularly sensational or novel.
It basically comes down to: The emerging economies, notably China, are coming on fast, and China is starting to do more trade
directly with other countries without the need for dollars.
China for example has entered currency swap arrangements with a number of countries so that trade financing can be negotiated in renminbi as opposed to dollar terms. In addition, several countries have signed up to replace part of their foreign currency reserves with new bonds issued by the IMF and denominated in SDRs (Special Drawing Rights), a basket of currencies.
Capital must flow somewhere, and recent data suggest that the patterns of the previous decades, when capital flowed out of emerging countries and back into core countries has to some degree reversed. Clearly the U.S. dollar benefitted from a strong flight to quality bid during the global banking crisis. However, recently we have witnessed a reversal of those flows, arguably at least in part due to concerns that the massive amounts of U.S. dollar liquidity produced in response to the crisis. Indeed, in emerging countries we are seeing some central banks intervening to limit appreciation of their currencies as capital flows back into their economies. These preliminary signs of a reversal in the traditional pattern of capital flows during a deleveraging cycle may well mark an important shift in currency preferences.
And while we have not yet reached the point where a new global reserve currency will arise, we are clearly seeing a loss of status for the U.S. dollar as a store of value even in the absence of a single viable alternative. In combination with other factors, that likely means a continuing devaluing of the U.S. dollars versus other currencies, especially the EM currencies. Accordingly investors should consider whether it makes sense to take advantage of any periods of U.S. dollar strength to diversify their currency exposure.
Again, all this makes completely logical sense, but the leap to actually replacing the dollar still is huge. On a long-term basis, sure, it’s hard to imagine the dollar having a run in the 21st century anything like it had in the 20th.
Still, Mewbourne cites some eye-popping statistics, such as the growing size of the Chinese car market, and the amazing run in their stock market, which has grown bigger than Japan’s by market cap for the second time.
Mewbourne isn’t willing to call the Chinese market an unsustainable bubble, as so many have:
Some readers may perhaps fear that yet another asset bubble is forming, and that the growth in the Chinese market has come too far too fast, which of course is possible. At 25 times forward earnings and 3.8 times price-to-book, the Shanghai Stock Exchange Composite Index is far from cheap by traditional measures, and thus financial markets are likely reflecting more of a “voting machine” aspect of future expectations than a “weighing machine” measure of current value. But the fact is that we are witnessing real time indicators of significant changes in the global economy, with China clearly continuing its meteoric rise in terms of global economic importance. It is not surprising China’s market capitalization is larger than Japan’s, given that the Chinese economy will probably surpass Japan to become the second largest economy in the world next year, measured in current exchange rates.
http://www.businessinsider.com/pimco-dollar-supremacy-is-coming-to-an-end-2009-8
Go to the site for the entire story.
kash: “But even if you are right, I still don’t think that it is because the Bible says fiat money is evil. I think the Bible says greed and dishonesty are evil, and we have plenty of that in our modern economic system.”
So in your book its a good idea to put the power of controlling a nation’s currency in the hands of a small group of men. Of course we know they will do the right thing and not abuse their power to enrich themselves and their cronies. Ever wonder why more and more of our Sec. or Treasury and economic advisers to the President come from Wall Street, especially Goldman Sachs. Yep these boys are all saints. We can trust them. Of course even after the Banking / Financial Crisis they created that nearly brought the global financial system to its knees and taking $150 billion in bailout money, they gave themselves $32 billion in bonuses this year.
Where is the outrage?
kash: “That is how I view your very strong opinions about the Federal Reserve. I think you became convinced of the evil of the Federal Reserve, and therefore when you read the Bible you see confirmation of that belief that isn’t necessarily there.”
How do you explain that since 1913 the US dollar has lost 96% of its value. The charter of the Fed states that its purpose is to maintain a stable currency. Seems like they failed miserably.
Let me ask you this, “When the US dollar declines in value and inflation begins to morph into hyperinflation whose fault will it be?” Will you then agree with me and many others that blame the Fed.
Who provided the “liquidity” that promoted the real estate bubble? I will agree that the people got drunk on real estate but it was the Fed that provided the liquor and the keys to the Corvette that led to the crash.
Here is some pages from Gary North’s book “Salvation through Inflation the economics of Social Credit”:
The Critics of Capitalism
This conclusion has not satisfied many generations of critics
of free market capitalism. They begin as Smith did, by asking
the same question: What are the policies of civil government
that lead to greater wealth in society? They conclude something
entirely different additional government controls over the
economy. They blame poverty on capitalism’s policy of placing
ownership in the hands of individuals and then leaving them
free to buy and sell from each other. Some critics of capitalism
call for a return to a version of mercantilism: controls over the
terms of trade. National socialism (Nazism) and Fascism are
examples of this type of thinking: the “corporate state” which
proclaims the “partnership between business and government.”
Other critics call for full socialism: the State’s ownership of the
means of production. Still others call for a reform in the monetary
system. This was the heart of Major Douglas’ recommended
reform.
This is not to say that anyone and everyone who calls for a
reform of the monetary system is necessarily a hostile critic of
free market capitalism. Some are, some aren’t. Marx surely was.
In the Communist Manzfesto (1848), Marx and Engels recommended
“Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by
means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive
monopoly”l This was point five in their ten-point program to replace capitalism with socialism. The questions we must answer
are these: Which kind of monetary reform did Major Douglas
propose? Was his a socialist solution? Mercantilist-Fascist? Was
he a free market reformer? Or was he something else?
To evaluate the wisdom of any reformer’s proposals, we
need a standard. I have declared in Chapter 1 that this standard
must be the Bible. We need to survey what the Bible
teaches on wealth and money before we examine the details of
Social Credit. Those who claim that Social Credit is consistent
with the Bible must prove their case from the Bible. They have
not accomplished this task, as of early 1993. I intend in this
book to prove the opposite: Social Credit is inconsistent with
the Bible, as well as inconsistent with the logic of economics.
The Biblical View of Wealth
The Bible begins with the doctrine of creation: God created
the world (Genesis 1). This means that everything that mankkd
possesses is a gift of God. Christianity calls such gifts grace. So,
each person begins life as an heir of the grace of God, what is
sometimes called common grace. Jesus said of God the Father in
heaven: “He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the
good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust” (Matthew
5:45b). Men do not earn these blessings.
Ownership-Stewardship
God gave to Adam and Eve the ownership of the world:
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and
over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the
earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the
earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of
God created he him; male and female created he them. And
God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and
multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have Scarcity
What do we mean by the word “scarcity”? Biblically, scarcity
means that nature, which had not thwarted mankhd before the
curse, now thwarts the entire human race. Men must sweat in
order to obtain what they want. That is, they must suffer unpleasantness
in order to gain benefits. While air conditioning
has reduced the burden of sweating for modern workers in
wealthy societies, people now “sweat” internally. They suffer
stress. They get ulcers. There is no escape in history from the
curse on man’s labor.
The economist offers a different definition of scarcity “At
zero price there is greater demand for something than there is
available supply to meet all the demand.” Thus, men must
make bids in order to obtain a scarce resource. They enter a
kind of auction. They must give up one scarce good or service
in order to obtain another good or service. So, the economist
describes the e~ect of scarcity. The Bible tells us why we face
scarcity.
The earth was cursed by God because Adam was cursed. The
earth was like a military man whose commanding officer rebels,
fights the wrong battle, and gets everyone killed, wounded, or
captured. Nature suffered a penalty because of the rebellion of
man.
I have said that there is no full escape from the curse on the
ground in history, but this does not mean that there cannot be
a progressive reduction in scarcity and its oppressive effects.
Economic growth is proof of this. A very good definition of
economic growth is this one: “An increase in the number of our
options.” We have more choices because we can a~ord more
choices.
The Bible teaches that as we progressively obey God and
overcome our sin and rebellion, He will reward us with greater
external blessings. We read of this promise in the Book of
Deuteronomy, chapter 28, verses 1-14. On the other hand, if
we disobey, we will be cursed: Deuteronomy 28:15-69. So, the Bible teaches, our external prosperity is related to our external
obedience to God’s law.
The Grace of God
How can we obey God? Only through God’s grace. The
Bible is very clear about this: grace always precedes obedience. We
do not earn our way into heaven. We do not earn God’s favor.
God graciously grants us saving faith, and He also grants us
opportunities to obey him by performing good works: “For by
grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it
is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For
we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good
works, which God bath before ordained that we should walk in
them” (Ephesians 2:8-10). In short, the Bible teaches that grace
precedes obedience. We are always in debt to God. We are
always paying off our obligations to Him.
The only reason we are granted the grace to continue to pay
is because Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died on the cross in
order to pay God full price for our sins. “But God commendeth
his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ
died for us” (Remans 5:8). “For the wages of sin is death; but
the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord”
(Remans 6:23).
This means that while there can be no full escape in history
from the painful effects of the curse on us and on the earth,
there can and should be a progressive escape horn the most
burdensome of these curses: Why is it impossible to escape
fully from the curse of God in history? Because there cannot be
moral perfection in history, other than the moral perfection of
Jesus Christ. “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us” (I John 1:8).
Nevertheless, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”
(I John 1:9). This is why there is legitimate hope for the
future. This is why there is economic growth. But we have been
warned not to enjoy the gifts of God – grace – and then fo~et
the Giver. Beware, God warns, that “thou say in thine heart,
My power and the might of mine hand bath gotten me this
wealth. But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he
that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his
covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day”
(Deuteronomy 8:17-18).
The Biblical Vmv of Money
The Bible offers considerable information about how money
fi.mctions in a society, and also about how monetary policy
should be conducted. The most famous statement in the Bible
about money is Paul’s warning: “For the love of money is the
root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred
from the ftith, and pierced themselves through with many
sorrows” (1 Timothy 6:10).
Why should the love of money be the root of all evil? Why
not the love of something else? Because money is the representative
example of all the earth’s goods. Money is the representative
example because money is the most marketable commodity the
material good which money-loving people imagine can buy all
the other desirable things in this world. It can legitimately be
regarded as the economic incarnation of the world’s goods.
Money is the incarnation of wealth.
Gold and Silver
Gold and silver have functioned as money in history. So
have other commodities. Economists usually identi~ the following
features of those commodities that have historically functioned
as money recognizability, divisibility, durability, transportability,
and high value in relation to weight. Wealth is equated in the Bible with silver and gold: “And
Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold” (Genesis
13:2). Anyone who claims to believe in the Bible and who also
refuses to acknowledge that money is a form of wealth has to
conclude that gold and silver can never be money. But the
Bible makes it clear that gold and silver have fimctioned as
money, from the days of the &mine in Egypt through Christ’s
payment of taxes: the coin inside the fish (Matthew 17:27).
The Bible does not teach that money must always be gold or
silver. The Bible does not specify any commodity that should
always be money. That is, the Bible does not identifj “true
money.” This means that whatever people decide they want to
use as money is legitimate, so long as the biblical law against
counterfeiting is obeyed.
What the Bible does teach is that righteousness is analogous
to the precious metals: silver and gold. For God’s people, righteousness
and wisdom should be more desirable than silver or
gold, but silver and gold are thereby identified as among mankind’s
most desirable goods.
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace
of earth, purfied seven times (Psalm 12:6).
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments
of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired
are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also
than honey and the honeycomb (Psahn 19:9-10).
For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is
tried (Psalm 66: 10).
The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold
and silver (Psalm 119:72).
Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine
gold (Psalm 119: 127). Riches and honour are with me; yea, durable riches and righteousness.
My fruit is better than gold, yea, than fine gold; and
my revenue than choice silver. I lead in the way of righteousness,
in the midst of the paths of judgment: That I may cause
those that love me to inherit substance; and I will fill their treasures
(Proverbs 8:18-2 1).
The tongue of the just is as choice silver: the heart of the wicked
is little worth (Proverbs 10:20).
How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding
rather to be chosen than silver! (Proverbs 16:16).
A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver
(Proverbs 25: 11).
Historically, individuals have chosen gold and silver as money.
These metals are rare. They are expensive to mine. They
are attractive physically. Coins of pure or nearly pure gold or
silver cannot be mass produced. This controls the money supply.
One of the attributes of money is high value in relation to
weight. Gold and silver possess this attribute.
False Mixtures, False Weights
The Bible identifies debasement as an evil: “Thy silver is
become dross, thy wine mixed with water” (Isaiah 1:22). Isaiah
equated the mixing of dross (cheap) metals with silver and then
calling the finished product silver as a form of moral debasement.
He prophesied a coming judgment against Judah, and
he described it as a metallurgist’s fire:
And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away
thy dross, and take away all thy tin: And I will restore thy judges
as at the first, and thy counselors as at the beginning: afterward
thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the ftithfi.d city.
Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness. And the destruction of the transgressors and of
the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD
shall be consumed (Isaiah 1 :25-28).
To debase a money metal is to counterfeit money. Counterfeiting
is a form of deliberate deception: fooling sellers of goods
and services into believing that the buyer has offered them a
high quality coin. The counterfeiter takes a quantity of highvalue
metal and then mixes in a low-value metal. This increases
the supply of molten metal. He pours this mixture into coin or
ingot molds. This increases the number of seemingly high-value
coins or ingots in his possession. He then goes out and spends
these false coins. This is judicially the same as tampering” with
the scales, a practice prohibited repeatedly by God.
Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just bin, shall ye
have: I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the
land of Egypt (Leviticus 19:36).
Thou shalt not have in thy bag divers weights, a great and a
small (Deuteronomy 25: 13).
A just weight and balance are the LORD’S: all the weights of the
bag are his work (Proverbs 16:1 1).
Divers weights, and divers measures, both of them are alike
abomination to the LORD (Proverbs 20:10).
Divers weights are an abomination unto the LoRD; and a false
balance is not good (Proverbs 20:23).
Shall I count them pure with the wicked balances, and with the
bag of deceitful weights? (Micah 6:11).
What the Bible requires is that those who produce gold or
silver coins and then spend them on other goods and services
must not debase their coinage. They must not manufacture coins that appear to be made of a specific percentage (fineness)
of gold or silver when in fact the shiny metal coins contain a
lower percentage than what has been promised or implied by
tradition.
What is true of a counterfeit coin, which is relatively easy for
someone to test by color, weight, or hardness (in the case of
pure gold), is even more true of paper money and credit money.
One piece of paper money looks like all the others of the
same denomination. Thus, the paper money counterfeiter finds
it quite easy to produce extra pieces of paper – far easier than
the counterfeiter of metal coins. If the counterfeiter is the State,
and has legal access to the specialized paper and ink that only
the government is allowed to use (according to government
law), then this is doubly evil. It is a misuse of a God-given
delegation of sovereignty to the civil government. It is a betrayal
of the nation’s trust. It is theft.
Price In.ation
When a counterfeiter spends a few debased coins into circulation,
he can buy today’s goods at yesterday’s prices. But if the
counterfeiting continues, there will be more and more coins or
pieces of paper being offered in the market. This means that
money-denominated prices will be bid higher. In the case of
coins, the public will find ways to identifi the debased coins.
Then a price differential will appear between the high-gold
content coins and the fakes. But in the case of paper money,
this differentiation is impossible. So, all pieces of paper money
fall in value equally.
If the government passes a law that requires all coins of the
same denomination to trade at the same price, then the highgold
content coins will be hoarded or exported outside the
government’s jurisdiction. This is Gresham’s Law in action:
“Bad coins drive good coins out of circulation.” This only happens
when the State imposes a unique price control: equal
value for coins of unequal value. Thus, Gresham’s Law should be stated as follows: “Coins that have been artificially ovmalued
by civil law will steadily drive out of circulation those coins that
have been artificially undervalued by civil law.”
Monetary inflation produces price inflation. That is, counterfeiting
drives up the price of goods and services; hence, this
process of money growth lowers the market value of the debased
currency units. Those who hold onto money will see their
wealth depleted when prices of other items rise. In the case of
a government monopoly over money, those who trust the government
when it inflates the money supply generally lose.
Those who do not trust the government’s money spend the
money on goods whose value in money rises. They profit at the
expense of those who trust the government. If commercial
banks are licensed by the State to create credit money the same
process continues. The same is true of a State-licensed central
bank.
Monetary inflation redistributes wealth to those who gain
access early to the newly counterfeited money and spend it.
Who pays? Those who do not spend it early or those who gain
access to the money later in the process, after prices have risen.
Those who trust the monetary unit lose; those who do not trust
it win. This is an ethically perverse system. This is why the
Bible prohibits monetary inflation, either by the State or private
counterfeiters.
Conclusion
hy economic theory that begins with nature rather than
God’s sovereign creation of nature out of nothing cannot be
Christian. Any economic theory that begins with man rather
than God cannot be Christian. It may not directly attack Christianity,
but it is not Christian. It may provide a great deal of
good information about this or that, but it is not Christian.
Any monetary system that allows the State to create additional
paper money or credit apart from an equal increase in whatever
metal the paper receipts promise to pay – gold, silver, or copper – is opposed to what the Bible requires. The same holds
true for central banks and commercial banks that issue more
receipts to metal than they have in reserve, i.e., fractional reserve
bankings
Major Douglas did not begin with the Bible. He did not
begin with the doctrine of creation. He did not begin with the
idea that all of our wealth is the gift of God. He never mentioned
the laws of God revealed in the Bible and God’s promise
of visible blessings to those societies that obey these laws. He
recommended a monetary reform that would place the control
over money in the hands of the State. He recommended that
the State issue money and credit irrespective of any increase in
the State’s supply of gold or silver. Let me offer my book’s
conclusion in advance: Social Credit requires what the Bible expressly prohibits.
kash, and all others who think our “benevolent” government will save us…they have destroyed us and don’t give a rip about the suffering and misery they are bringing on the people. Remember ladies and gentlemen, our government gave hundreds of billions of dollars to the Banksters, who intern gave themselves tens of billions of dollars in bonuses.
With the Federal Deficit going ballistic there is one inviting solution – get rid of the geezers.
Wait a minute, I am a geezer!
“Millions face shrinking Social Security payments
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER (AP) – 20 minutes ago
WASHINGTON — Millions of older people face shrinking Social Security checks next year, the first time in a generation that payments would not rise.
The trustees who oversee Social Security are projecting there won’t be a cost of living adjustment (COLA) for the next two years. That hasn’t happened since automatic increases were adopted in 1975.
By law, Social Security benefits cannot go down. Nevertheless, monthly payments would drop for millions of people the Medicare prescription drug program because the premiums, which often are deducted from Social Security payments, are scheduled to go up slightly.
“I will promise you, they count on that COLA,” said Barbara Kennelly, a former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut who now heads the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. “To some people, it might not be a big deal. But to seniors, especially with their health care costs, it is a big deal.”
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iTrgrpJ1JxUsdwo-WbKS7wAGqBXwD9A8QG3G0
Never disturb the social order is the primary directive of MOPE. A smaller SS check will disturb the devil out of those that receive them.
“Millions face shrinking Social Security checks
Next year marks first time in a generation that payments won’t increase
WASHINGTON — Millions of older people face shrinking Social Security checks next year, the first time in a generation that payments would not rise.
The trustees who oversee Social Security are projecting there won’t be a cost of living adjustment (COLA) for the next two years. That hasn’t happened since automatic increases were adopted in 1975.
By law, Social Security benefits cannot go down. Nevertheless, monthly payments would drop for millions of people in the Medicare prescription drug program because the premiums, which often are deducted from Social Security payments, are scheduled to go up slightly.
“I will promise you, they count on that COLA,” said Barbara Kennelly, a former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut who now heads the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. “To some people, it might not be a big deal. But to seniors, especially with their health care costs, it is a big deal.”
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/23/social-security-payments-shrink-time-generation/
Putin is not a person to mess with. There will be retribution.
Report: Pirates seize ship on Israel’s behalf, preventing arms from Iran
Aug 22, 2009 12:43 | Updated Aug 22, 2009 16:00
Pirates recently gained control over a Russian ship off the shores of Sweden in order to prevent weapons smuggling to Iran on Israel’s behalf, according to a report by Russian newspaper Nuvia Gueta.
According to Saturday’s report, which Army Radio cited, the Russian ship was carrying a load of X-55 cruise missiles intended for Teheran. Several days after the pirates seized the ship, Russian navy forces gained control over the vessel off the coast of West Africa.
Army Radio said Russian authorities denied the report, saying “the allegations are baseless.”
Dmitri Rogozin, Russia’s ambassador to NATO, said the report was fantastical and absurd.’
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418669031&pagename=JPArticle%2FShowFull
No, no, no, there is no corruption in Washington…..only a fool would believe this. Term limits won’t solve the problem. The best way to take away Washington’s power over the states is to repeal the Amendment providing for Senators to be elected rather than appointed by state legislatures and to restrict the power of the Fed and eventually get rid of it. The demise of the dollar is underway. It has been destroyed, not by our enemies but by our very own politicians of both political parties.
Kiss the US dollar goodbye. 75 days to go.
Obama to raise 10-year deficit to $9 trillion
Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:50pm EDT
21 Aug 2009
By Jeff Mason
WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The Obama administration will raise its 10-year budget deficit projection to approximately $9 trillion from $7.108 trillion in a report next week, a senior administration official told Reuters on Friday.
The higher deficit figure, based on updated economic data, brings the White House budget office into line with outside estimates and gives further fuel to President Barack Obama’s opponents, who say his spending plans are too expensive in light of budget shortfalls.
The White House took heat for sticking with its $7.108 trillion forecast earlier this year after the Congressional Budget Office forecast that deficits between 2010 and 2019 would total $9.1 trillion.
“The new forecasts are based on new data that reflect how severe the economic downturn was in the late fall of last year and the winter of this year,” said the administration official, who is familiar with the budget mid-session review that is slated to be released next week.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE57K4XE20090821
The Statists and those who support them are killing us, while enriching themselves and their buddies. Washington has been hijacked by Wall Street. It is time to take back our country while there is still something to take back.
Social Security and Medicare represent $107 trillion dollars of unfunded liability.
Less than 600 people have ruined the US. It is not only the present Administration or the last, but all of them put together.
“$107 trillion in liabilities
Friday August 21, 2009
Congress needs to fix existing programs if it creates new ones
AS Americans listened to people yammer on about “death panels” and other distortions of some of the health “reform” proposals circulating in Congress, larger and more important questions have gone unasked and unanswered.
First on the list should be: Are members of Congress out of touch with reality?
The nation can’t pay for Social Security and the health entitlement programs it has now.
The Social Security and Medicare Trustees Reports for 2009, released in early May, laid out the situation plainly:
Social Security and Medicare have a combined unfunded liability of almost $107 trillion.”
http://www.dailymail.com/Opinion/Editorials/200908200687
From Russia with love. Sad but true. This part of the article strikes at my very heart:
” Pride blinds the foolish.
Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of thousands of different “branches and denominations” were for the most part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top Protestant mega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to be on the “winning” side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another.”
“American capitalism gone with a whimper
It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American descent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.
True, the situation has been well prepared on and off for the past century, especially the past twenty years. The initial testing grounds was conducted upon our Holy Russia and a bloody test it was. But we Russians would not just roll over and give up our freedoms and our souls, no matter how much money Wall Street poured into the fists of the Marxists.
Those lessons were taken and used to properly prepare the American populace for the surrender of their freedoms and souls, to the whims of their elites and betters.
First, the population was dumbed down through a politicized and substandard education system based on pop culture, rather than the classics. Americans know more about their favorite TV dramas then the drama in DC that directly affects their lives. They care more for their “right” to choke down a McDonalds burger or a Burger King burger than for their constitutional rights. Then they turn around and lecture us about our rights and about our “democracy”. Pride blinds the foolish.
Then their faith in God was destroyed, until their churches, all tens of thousands of different “branches and denominations” were for the most part little more then Sunday circuses and their televangelists and top Protestant mega preachers were more then happy to sell out their souls and flocks to be on the “winning” side of one pseudo Marxist politician or another. Their flocks may complain, but when explained that they would be on the “winning” side, their flocks were ever so quick to reject Christ in hopes for earthly power. Even our Holy Orthodox churches are scandalously liberalized in America .
http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/
From Mike’s article: “By law, Social Security benefits cannot go down. Nevertheless, monthly payments would drop for millions of people the Medicare prescription drug program because the premiums, which often are deducted from Social Security payments, are scheduled to go up slightly.” So the caveat to this is: If we pass medical insurance reform, this may not happen. It is not because the government is decreasing social security, but because presciption drugs are so expensive that the payments might shrink….IF WE DON”T ADDRESS THE PROBLEM OF RISING HEALTH CARE COSTS.
From Mike’s article: “I will promise you, they count on that COLA,” said Barbara Kennelly, a former Democratic congresswoman from Connecticut who now heads the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare. “To some people, it might not be a big deal. But to seniors, especially with their health care costs, it is a big deal.” I’m sorry, but how does an article about how seniors depend upon the government’s help to afford their health care argue against expanding the government help available and regulating costs so that the same amount of money goes farther? Mike, you are now arguing against yourself.
Mike writes/borrows: “American capitalism gone with a whimper
It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American descent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people.” Oh please. Such drama. Most big companies now are multinational conglomerates that are hardly being taken over by ANY government. They are the ones telling governments what to do, originally just in the “developing world” but increasingly in the industrialized world as well. You really think the big capitalistic corporations are the ones sufferring in the current economy, or their CEOs?
kash: “Mike writes/borrows: “American capitalism gone with a whimper” I did not write this, it was from the article. Try reading things for once rather than just reacting to them.
From the Article: “Most big companies now are multinational conglomerates that are hardly being taken over by ANY government. They are the ones telling governments what to do, originally just in the “developing world” but increasingly in the industrialized world as well. You really think the big capitalistic corporations are the ones sufferring in the current economy, or their CEOs?”
We are not headed for socialism we are now being planted in Fascism, which according to Benito M. is the merger of the nations corporate structure and the state.
Here are some FACTS kash, Can you not see the corruption in progress. Wall Street has hijacked Washington is my warning to all. Obama is no more a man of the people than George Bush was. He is one of the White shoe boys that cares only about himself and his own power, just like all the other politicians, save a few descent humans trying to really change the system. What was once a rule by the servants of the people has become the ruling class where we the people are there to serve them.
1. John Baynor fact finding trip to Europe. Took 5 republicans and their families. No information was released. 1995 to present Congress has gone from 500 days overseas to 3000 days.
2. The cancelled order for $550 Million in Gulf Stream Je, was only done after protests. The jets were priced at $66 million each when the going price was $49 and some were selling for $44 due to slack orders.
3. Dept of S.S rented out Ariz. Biltmore for a meeting at a time when Soc. Security is going broke.
4. The 3rd shot of the Next American Revolution has been fired. The Town Hall meetings. The media and the politicians don’t see it coming. Example. Stenie Hoyer town hall meeting.
1st shot was the Apr.15 tea parties.
2nd shot was the July 4 protest
3 shot townhall meetings and healthcare debate.
5. People are losing homes, jobs, and pensions. Banks get bailed out for hundred of billions then skim off the top billions in bonuses.
Congress has a “let them eat cake” while the people are in an “off with their heads” movement.
Obamageddon, The Greatest Depression is on hold.
The US has gone from the Empire of entreprenuerial opportunity to the Too Big to fail nation. The economy seems to be in recovery but it is only in remission. The stimulus and bailouts are just temporary fixes which will not cure the problem.
SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT:
2001 George Bush was near where Obama is now. 911 led to a rally. Will a war or some other crisis avert our attention? Maybe, But the revolution is coming. Will something happen to rally the people around the president.
Predictions for 2012; Ghost malls, tent cities, gang warfare, mob rule, food riots, tax protest, farmer rebellions, student revolts, industrial saboteurs, squatter dig-ins, homeless uprising, general strikes, boss kidnappings, terror.
We are already seeing some of these things by workers in Europe and S. Korea.
Here are some more examples of how Wall Street hijacked Washington:
1. Al Gore with Ex Goldman partners set up on an exchange for buying carbon credits. Goldman Sachs 15% of the contract of the exchange.
2. There are people in the Presidents cabinet who have taken consulting fees from hedge funds. Bailouts.
3. “IF WE DON’T SAVE THESE FIRMS THE WORLD ECONOMIC SYSTEM WILL COLLAPS,”. Henry Paulsen said. Mr. Paulsen was the former CEO of Goldman Sachs.
4. On the AIG bailout. 1 person sat in with Treafury and Fed; it was Lloyd Blanfind current CEO of Goldman Sachs. It was Goldman that got bailed out. Read #6
5. Henry Paulson asked for waivers so that he could speak without retribution.
6. Goldman was carrying $13 billion worth of bad debts on AIG. We the tax payers bailed out Goldman to the full loss they would have suffered.
7. Carbon Trade taxes and selling of credits Commodities futures exchange commission chairman is Gary Gensler from Goldman Sachs. The Goldman / Citigroup crooks are all their. They’ve been their. Clinton’s Sec. of Treasury Robert Rubin left the department after brokering the deal that repealed the Glass Stegal Act which set up a wall between investment companies and the banks. The Wall was established to prevent another 1929 crash from leading into numerous bank failures.
Obama’s administration leans more towards fascism. Merger of state and corporate power as defined by Mussolini as fascism.
Rep. and Dem. pretend they dislike each other but they are doing deals behind closed doors. It is all the same club.
THE STORM IS COMING. It may be derailed for a while but its coming.
The News media entertains us by giving details of Michael Jackson’s life and death. It is all the dumbing down of America.
Look back at the Amer. Rev or French Rev. The people were ignored until the people could not take it anymore. People are losing everything and they will lose it.
When the history of these times is written:
THE PEOPLE THAT DID NOT SEE THIS REVOLUTION COMING ARE THE SAME PEOPLE THAT DID NOT SEE THE FINANCIAL COLLAPSE COMING.
Our leaders believe they are priveledged.They are treated like royalty. They do not have to work a day in their lives.
To make it in Washington you have to suck up to the powerful so can make your way to the top. Ask anyone who has worked for a Congressman or Senator. Grovelling has become an art in Washington.
Our politicians are only interested in 3 things: Pension, Privilege and their Position of power.
WITHOUT A PRODUCTIVE CAPACITY WE CANNOT GET OUT OF THIS FINANCIAL MESS. The US must develop something of proprietary means that we can export. Capitalism must be the order of the day, but even then we will have to go through a very painful transition.
kash, stop being a useful idiot.
WS journal tent city story. The homeless are made out to be criminals.
kash: “IF WE DON”T ADDRESS THE PROBLEM OF RISING HEALTH CARE COSTS.”
I believe we must address the problem of rising / out of control health care costs what I disagree with you on is the role of government. You believe government is the answer, while I believe in the free market. Do you not see that it has been the government that created the problem in the first place? Of course not, you are a devout statists and nothing ….no facts….no evidence….no nothing will convince you otherwise….the state is good….capitalism is evil.
Here are some FACTS:
1. The state has bankrupted Medicare.
2. The state has bankrupted Social Security
3. The state has been largely responsible for the destruction of the family unit at the cost of Trillions of dollars.
4. The state (Fed government involvement) has led America to have one of the worst educational systems in the world.
5. THE STATE CANNOT EVEN RUN ITS OWN Cash for Clunkers program.
LET ME REPEAT AGAIN. THE HIGH COST OF HEALTH CARE IN AMERICA IS THE RESULT OF THE STATE’S INTERVENTION IN THE SYSTEM.
“You believe government is the answer, while I believe in the free market.” No, I believe in government regulation of certain aspects of the free market. However, for it to work, the government can not be in bed with the industry that it is regulating, as has happened over the past 15 years with a revolving door between government regulators going to work for the companies they were supposed to be “regulating”, and vice versa. Conflict of interest rules must be observed and enforced.
Here are some facts:
1. Without the state, there would be no Medicare.
2. Without the state, there would be no social security. 3. The destruction of the family unit is because of a lack of committment among individuals, and the state giving in to the desire for the people to have lax divorce laws. 4. The people criticizing America’s education system have no plan for an alternative and have no idea what education is like in other countries. We at least make it available to everyone and our citizens are not locked into a certain life track at an early age. A person can always work hard and get an education here, if they desire it. What other country does as good a job as we do at offerring education to EVERYONE at every age? 5. The cash for clunkers program, although flawed, DID stimulate an important sector of the economy at an important time.
“Predictions for 2012; Ghost malls, tent cities, gang warfare, mob rule, food riots, tax protest, farmer rebellions, student revolts, industrial saboteurs, squatter dig-ins, homeless uprising, general strikes, boss kidnappings, terror.
We are already seeing some of these things by workers in Europe and S. Korea.” Gee, Mike, in certain parts of every city there are already many of these things and always have been. And “farmer rebellions” are common stuff, although it depends on how you define it, I suppose. Migrant workers have been marching for rights since there have been migrant workers, right back to when the migrant workers were mostly poor white folks instead of poor Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. As long as we love cheap food, there will be “farmer rebellions”. And boss kidnappings and terror? Are you speaking of some specific spree going on in Europe, or simply trying to spin an apocolyptic tale as usual? And BTW, you used to predict all of this for 2010, then you pushed it back to 2011, and now I notice you are claiming 2012. Are you familiar with William Miller and the Millerites?
kash, you believe in the goodness of government, while I believe like our founders that the bigger the government the more problems we will have. Regulations are needed but at some point they become oppressive. They reward those that want to maintain their influence and power while destroying the free market. Now let me respond, which is really a waste of time in your case since you are a Devout Statist yourself. You mind is not open to any other opinion other than the government can fix everything and if only people will do the right thing.
kash: “However, for it to work, the government can not be in bed with the industry that it is regulating, as has happened over the past 15 years with a revolving door between government regulators going to work for the companies they were supposed to be “regulating”, and vice versa. Conflict of interest rules must be observed and enforced.
MIke’s reponse: You have to be kidding. Why on earth do you think there are 17,000 lobbyist in Washington. I’ve given you examples how Goldman Sach and Wall street have taken over the government. Get real lady. Every politician goes to Washington with Reform on his lips (recall Obama’s CHANGE IS COMING) and once there gets caught up in the cesspool that our government has become. Stop living in your idealistic world.
kash: Here are some facts:
1. Without the state, there would be no Medicare.
Mike: So medicare is now broke and is one of the reasons why healthcare costs have spiraled these years. If we had been taxed at lower rates, and if inflation had not destroyed the purchasing power of the USD, people would have been able to save for they “golden years.” and prices would not have gone ballistic.
kash: 2. Without the state, there would be no social security.
Mike: Social Security is broke because the government robbed the trust fund to finance all sorts of crazy / unnecessary programs. The American people would have been better off if they had been allowed to invest in their own retirement plans. It is a known fact people could have put their SS contributions into a bank account earning interest and they would have done better than what the government has provided. Besides the account would belong to the individual and would then be passed on to a surviving spouse or children at the time of death. As it is now, when a spouse dies the survivor must choose one of two SS plans, the other reverts to the state. Since the life expectancy of minorities is less than for caucasions they are actually cheated out of their “Fair share.”
kash: 3. The destruction of the family unit is because of a lack of committment among individuals, and the state giving in to the desire for the people to have lax divorce laws.
Mike: And who substituted the father with the state as chief bread winner? The Welfare state has done more to destroy the black family than 350 years of slavery and 150 years of Jim Crow. Low income housing projects have led to crime ridden neighborhoods since the requirements to get this housing led to the lowest level of the society being concentrated in these complexes. Several Generations of welfare queens have led to the end of incentives to get out of poverty. You keep blaming the people that were ENCOURAGED by the government to become dependent, and why not? Dependent people will vote for those on which they depend.
kash: 4. The people criticizing America’s education system have no plan for an alternative and have no idea what education is like in other countries. We at least make it available to everyone and our citizens are not locked into a certain life track at an early age.
Mike: I recall a time when America was number 1 in education, now we have fallen below 25th place. Our drop out rate is a national disgrace and it is a known fact that many graduate that cannot read on the 8th grade level and cannot do simple math.
ALTERNATIVE PLAN WHICH WOULD COST LESS THAN THE CURRENT SYSTEM has been proposed by many Conservatives but rejected by those that want to continue the status quo. The answer is simple, OFFER A COMPETITIVE SYSTEM. In Belgium, I believe, the money provided by the government follows the student. Every child is provided a certain amount and the parents decide where to send their child to school. Private schools offer lower cost and a better education to children. The current system is there to protect teaching positions…the unions do not care about the children.
A person can always work hard and get an education here, if they desire it. What other country does as good a job as we do at offerring education to EVERYONE at every age?
What is the quality of that education. What chance does a child have in an inner city school where crime runs rampant along with a culture that dissuades children from learning. Ever hear the comment said by some black children to other black children that seek to improve their lot in life, “You are acting white” is what they say to a black child trying to achieve. America falls into the mid 20s amoung nations educating their children. We are becoming irrelevent.
5.The cash for clunkers program, although flawed, DID stimulate an important sector of the economy at an important time.
Mike: Your are absolutely ignorant of economics. Cash for clunkers is a big mistake. It stimulated the auto industry but is and will put pressure on segments of the economy. The retail sector is taking a hit as people that once had no car payments are strapped with monthly “Cash for Clunkers payments.” As for the Auto industry, once the stimulus comes to an end the industry will slide back to where it was.
The next shoe to drop will be in the commercial real estate market. At the same time phase 2 of the real estate bust will be underway. There are $10 trillion in the mortgage market and 1 in 3 have negative equity. People are now losing their homes because they are losing their jobs. Real unemployment (U6) is over 16% according to government figures. IT is estimated that another 2 million will lose their homes over the next 2 years.
ALL OF THIS AGONY AND MISERY WAS CAUSED BY GOVERNMENT. It was the Fed that lowered rates to 1%, discouraging savings and inflating the real estate bubble. They are now in the process of inflating the credit bubble while will lead to the implosion of the US dollar. It was government (first under Clinton, then under Bush) that repealed Glass Stegall and allowed finance companies to leverage up 45 to 1.
It was government that establishes the TOO BIG TO FAIL and thus bails out the very people that created the crisis. These people have walked away with billions and you keep blaming “the people that got caught up in the speculation.”
kash YOU ARE USEFUL IDIOT THAT REFUSES TO SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING BEFORE YOUR VERY EYES. I’ve provided you with the fact necessary to know the truth. You have not refuted any of the things I have stated. You keep expecting a perfect world run by imperfect men and women. The system must be reformed but that can only be done by taking away their power. YOU WANT TO GIVE THEM MORE. I do not understand you. Do you not see what is taking place.
HERE IS THE FACT: WE ARE TWO YEARS INTO THE STIMULUS AND BAILOUTS AND THE ECONOMY KEEPS GETTING WORSE. What is wrong with you?
kash: “The cash for clunkers program, although flawed,…..”
So let’s see if understand your logic. The government cannot run a $3 to $4 billion dollar TEMPORARY program but it can run a $2 trillion national health care system efficiently. Anyone that believes this has to be out of their mind.
kash: “Gee, Mike, in certain parts of every city there are already many of these things and always have been. And “farmer rebellions” are common stuff, although it depends on how you define it, I suppose. Migrant workers have been marching for rights since there have been migrant workers, right back to when the migrant workers were mostly poor white folks instead of poor Mexicans and Mexican-Americans. As long as we love cheap food, there will be “farmer rebellions”. And boss kidnappings and terror? Are you speaking of some specific spree going on in Europe, or simply trying to spin an apocolyptic tale as usual?”
Mike’s response: I am speaking of widespread “Ghost malls, tent cities, gang warfare, mob rule, food riots, tax protest, farmer rebellions, student revolts, industrial saboteurs, squatter dig-ins, homeless uprising, general strikes, boss kidnappings, terror.” It will not happen all at once but over the next 2 to 3 years this will be the American Experience.
kash: “And BTW, you used to predict all of this for 2010, then you pushed it back to 2011, and now I notice you are claiming 2012.”
Mike’s response: Do you not know how to read. I said that by the end of this year…I actually believe that by Thanksgiving the dollar will begin its descent lower. Right now it is trading sideways in a very narrow range. The first support is around 76 on the USDX followed by 72. Once 76 fails, and I believe it will before this year is out and certainly by early 2010, the wheels of hyperinflation will begin to turn. 2010 will be worse than 2009 for the economy and inflation will lead to higher interest rates which will negatively impact the economy. The trillions of new USD created by the Fed has insured this process unfolding. My call for 2012 to 2014 will mark the bottom.
While timing these things precisely are difficult I am sure that between late 2010 and the end of 2012 the government will begin to call for a new currency. By then the middleclass and all those tied to the USD will have been impoverished. The end result will be a deflationary collapse.
I am basing my predictions on what has taken place every time government has debased the monetary system.
Now learn how to read so you do not misrepresent what people say.
I’m sure kash will support the Dough for Dumps program should such a project be under taken by our benevolent and wise government:
“Dough for Dumps?
Peter Schiff
written Aug 21, 2009
posted Aug 24, 2009
After having given away billions faster than even the optimists had anticipated, it was announced today that the federal government’s “Cash for Clunkers” program is coming to an early end. But, based on the standards of economic analysis which prevail in Washington, Wall Street and academia, the program must be considered a master stroke of public policy. These experts will tell you that by mandating that citizens destroy older (but still working) vehicles to receive $4,500 toward the purchase of a new car, the program not only revved up the economy by encouraging Americans to borrow more, but it may have, perhaps, made some great strides in saving the planet by reducing carbon emissions.
With this solid win-win now on the books, the time has come to put the strategy to work in other areas. For instance, the government could use these lessons learned to help the moribund housing sector. I propose the “Dough for Dumps” stimulus program. Here’s how it would work:
Homeowners struggling to make payments on environmentally inefficient homes can apply for government aid to destroy their old homes and receive guaranteed loans to buy newly constructed houses, provided they are furnished with the latest “green” advancements in energy systems and building materials. As with the “Cash for Clunkers” program, this plan would solve many problems at once.
First, it will help put a floor under falling home prices by reducing the glut of houses currently on the market. The best way to stop prices from falling, and thereby reduce the foreclosure wave, is to reduce supply.
Left alone, the market would do this by lowering prices, which would bring more buyers into the market. But this approach falls on the back of homeowners whose only crime was to overpay for a house. A more socially equitable method would be for all taxpayers to shoulder the burden through a government bulldozing program.
In addition to contracting the supply of homes, the program would also stimulate the economy by providing funds to hire environmentally savvy builders and contractors (not to mention the workers needed to demolish the old homes). The resulting demand would help to reduce unemployment, especially in the housing sector. Government incentives and subsidies could also give an important boost to the developers and manufacturers of “green” windows, solar heating systems, furnaces and water systems.
Once this program has rejuvenated the real estate market, citizens should also be encouraged to burn their old furniture and clothing, thereby sparking demand for new goods from our nation’s struggling retailers. When you think about it, the possibilities are endless.
If these proposals seem ridiculous, it is because they are. But they are no less ridiculous than the “Cash for Clunkers” program that inspired them. All are examples of the “broken window” fallacy of economics, which argues that economic activity can be stimulated by the need to replace something that has been destroyed.
Unfortunately, many of our “best” economists subscribe to the notion. But society gains nothing from redundant activities. Digging holes just to fill them up does employ workers, but the work offers no benefit to anyone not receiving the wage. Absent government incentives, such a job would create no profit and could only exist as a result of a subsidy from someone else. Such work also prevents workers from accomplishing tasks that create real wealth and actually benefit society.
In the case of “Cash for Clunkers,” the government provided an incentive for citizens to destroy otherwise working assets, fully owned by their users, in exchange for a smattering of “green” tech and a lot more debt. Could anyone look at our country now and determine that our problems stem from a lack of new cars? Given our level of economic output, it is likely that we already have too many cars. On the other hand, it should be obvious to anyone that American consumers are already burdened by too much debt. The program distorts the market by giving car owners a powerful incentive to take out new loans for cars they may not need.
The environmental benefits of the program are much more difficult to quantify and extremely unlikely to overcome the waste inherent in the wanton destruction of working assets. On a practical level, the premature shelving of working cars will add extra pressures to our waste management capacity, and create emissions and pollution through the compaction/incineration processes that accompanies disposal. On an abstract level, this program punishes every consumer who sought to be ahead of the curve in environmental responsibility by using their own resources to upgrade a clunker. Some may think twice before making such a move without government money on the table.
More fundamentally however is the question of making wise decisions in a recession. Given the fragility of our finances, we should use our resources wisely, pay down our debt, replenish our depleted savings, and make investments in time and energy that offer a tangible benefit. The “Cash for Clunkers” program is the exact opposite of what we need and a glaring example of the lack of economic understanding currently on tap in Washington.
kash, a brief history of the Federal Reserve you so dearly love. I know you will never read the book THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND:
THE FEDERAL RESERVE MUST DIE
“Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value —- zero.” – Voltaire
“The Federal Reserve in collaboration with the giant banks has created the greatest financial crisis the world has ever seen. The foolish notion that unlimited amounts of money and credit created out of thin air can provide sustainable economic growth has delivered this crisis to us. Instead of economic growth and stable prices, (The Fed) has given us a system of government and finance that now threatens the world financial and political institutions. Pursuing the same policy of excessive spending, debt expansion and monetary inflation can only compound the problems that prevent the required corrections. Doubling the money supply didn’t work, quadrupling it won’t work either.
A History of Crisis & Political Influence
Creation
The history of the Federal Reserve is shrouded in mystery, with bankers and corrupt politicians calling the shots from the very outset. On the evening of November 22, 1910 , Senator Aldrich and A.P. Andrews (Assistant Secretary of the Treasury Department), Paul Warburg (a naturalized German representing Baron Alfred Rothschild’s Kuhn, Loeb & Co.), Frank Vanderlip (president of the National City Bank of New York), Henry P. Davison (senior partner of J.P. Morgan Company), Charles D. Norton (president of the Morgan-dominated First National Bank of New York), and Benjamin Strong (representing J. P. Morgan), left Hoboken, New Jersey on a train with a mission to gain complete control over the currency of the United States.
Forbes magazine founder Bertie Charles Forbes described the meeting on Jekyll Island, Georgia that brought about the Federal Reserve:
“Picture a party of the nation’s greatest bankers stealing out of New York on a private railroad car under cover of darkness, stealthily riding a hundred of miles South, embarking on a mysterious launch, sneaking onto an island deserted by all but a few servants, living there a full week under such rigid secrecy that the names of not one of them was once mentioned, lest the servants learn the identity and disclose to the world this strangest, most secret expedition in the history of American finance. I am not romancing; I am giving to the world, for the first time, the real story of how the famous Aldrich currency report, the foundation of our new currency system, was written… The utmost secrecy was enjoined upon all. The public must not glean a hint of what was to be done. Senator Aldrich notified each one to go quietly into a private car of which the railroad had received orders to draw up on an unfrequented platform. Off the party set. New York’s ubiquitous reporters had been foiled… Nelson (Aldrich) had confided to Henry, Frank, Paul and Piatt that he was to keep them locked up at Jekyll Island, out of the rest of the world, until they had evolved and compiled a scientific currency system for the United States, the real birth of the present Federal Reserve System, the plan done on Jekyll Island in the conference with Paul, Frank and Henry… Warburg is the link that binds the Aldrich system and the present system together. He, more than any one man, has made the system possible as a working reality.”
On December 19, 1913 Congress had two versions of a Federal Reserve bill with forty major differences. Many Senators left town for the Christmas break and President Wilson didn’t anticipate a final bill until January. In a matter of hours, the forty differences were reconciled and the bill was voted on with 22 of the 88 Senators not in town. It passed and was on Wilson’s desk for signature by December 22. He refused to sign it, until convinced by Bernard Baruch, a major contributor to his campaign and Wall Street millionaire. The passage of the Federal Reserve Act became known as “the Christmas massacre”
During the legislative process Senator Henry Cabot Lodge Sr. wisely pointed out the bleak future we would endure by giving bankers control over our destiny.
“The powers vested in the Federal Reserve Board seem to me highly dangerous especially when there is political control of the Board. I should be sorry to hold stock in a bank subject to such dominations. The [Federal Reserve] bill as it stands seems to me to open the way to a vast inflation of the currency.… I do not like to think that any law can be passed that will make it possible to submerge the gold standard in a flood of irredeemable paper currency.”
Congressman Charles A.Lindbergh Sr. had this to say after the passage of the bill:
“This [Federal Reserve Act] establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President signs this bill, the invisible government of the monetary power will be legalized….the worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency bill. The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people’s money. From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.”
More on the Fed:
Mandate(s)
The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 created the Federal Reserve Bank with the following mandate:
An Act To provide for the establishment of Federal reserve banks, to furnish an elastic currency, to afford means of rediscounting commercial paper, to establish a more effective supervision of banking in the United States, and for other purposes.
The original mandate was clearly limited. The idea was that a Central Bank would be able to keep the periodic panics like the Panic of 1907 from ever happening again. It appears that four innocuous words opened up Pandora’s Box and unleashed evils upon all mankind – “and for other purposes”. The bankers who control the Federal Reserve along with their politician protectors have dramatically expanded the scope, authority and influence of the Federal Reserve with each scientifically created crisis that has occurred in the last 96 years. They are attempting to grab more power as we speak.
Since 1913 the Federal Reserve has amassed more and more authority and now has vast responsibility and control over our lives. The Federal Reserve website lists the following functions:
•conducting the nation’s monetary policy by influencing the monetary and credit conditions in the economy in pursuit of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates
•supervising and regulating banking institutions to ensure the safety and soundness of the nation’s banking and financial system and to protect the credit rights of consumers
•maintaining the stability of the financial system and containing systemic risk that may arise in financial markets
•providing financial services to depository institutions, the U.S. government, and foreign official institutions, including playing a major role in operating the nation’s payments system
By any reasonable measure, the Federal Reserve has failed miserably in all their responsibilities. When organizations fail in a capitalist system, they are supposed to be replaced, not given more responsibility. They are now an immense entity with its insidious tentacles throughout the worldwide financial system.
Arrogance & Incompetence
In 1915, according the Federal Reserve annual report, they operated with 35 total employees. Today, they operate with over 20,000 employees costing $1.4 billion per year. The cost to operate the system exceeds $3.3 billion. With 20,000 of the “best” and “brightest”, you would think someone would have predicted the current financial crisis before it hit. But, no. Ben Bernanke thought the underpinnings of the economy were strong, housing was on a firm foundation, and the subprime issue was confined. This instance of incompetence is just one of many since 1913. When examining the history of the Federal Reserve you realize that it has overwhelmingly been led by weak, pliable, politically motivated men with little or no backbone. Of the 14 Federal Reserve Chairmen, only two could be considered independent and competent. The evidence of political influence, incompetence, and arrogance is conclusive.
Marriner Eccles (1934 – 1948)
•Banker and one of the architects of FDR’s Emergency Banking Act of 1933 that vastly expanded the powers of the President and Federal Reserve. It gave the President the ability to declare a national emergency and have absolute control over the national finances and foreign exchange of the United States in the event of such an emergency. The Emergency Banking Act was introduced on March 9, 1933, to a joint session of Congress and was passed the same evening amid an atmosphere of chaos and uncertainty as over 100 new Democratic members of Congress swept into power determined to take radical steps to address banking failures and other economic malaise. The sense of urgency was such that the act was passed with only a single copy available on the floor and most legislators voted on it without reading it. (Hmm. Remind you of any recent legislation?). One-third of all the banks in the country were shut down permanently after the passage, further concentrating banking wealth in a few mega-banks.
•Roosevelt chose him to be Fed Chairman because he agreed to support the massive spending projects to fend off the ravages of the Great Depression. He fully embraced the Keynesian policies of government intervention in free markets to artificially fend off recessions.
•He considered monetary policy, the primary purpose of the Federal Reserve, of secondary importance, and as a result he allowed the Federal Reserve to be controlled by the interests of the President and Treasury.
•During World War II, Eccles pledged to the President to keep the interest rate on Treasury bills fixed at 0.375 percent. It continued to support government borrowing after the war ended, despite the fact that the CPI rose 14% in 1947 and 8% in 1948, and the economy was in recession.
•He was a key architect of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, which have perpetuated poverty throughout the world while centralizing economic power among a few dominant countries.
Arthur Frank Burns (1970 – 1978)
•Columbia professor of economics who never worked a day in the private sector in his lifetime and possibly the weakest Fed Chairman in history.
•In his book Six Crises, Richard Nixon blamed his defeat to John F. Kennedy in 1960 on restrictive Fed policy and the resulting tight credit conditions and slow growth. After finally winning the Presidency in 1968, Nixon named Burns to the Fed Chairmanship in 1970 with instructions to ensure easy access to credit when Nixon was running for reelection in 1972.
•Burns appeared to show some backbone and resisted Nixon’s demands, but after negative press about him was planted in newspapers by Nixon’s henchmen and, under the threat of legislation to dilute the Fed’s influence, Burns and other Governors succumbed to political pressure.
•Burns believed that Fed action should try to maintain an unemployment rate of around 4%. Burns’ ultra- loose monetary policies resulted in inflation, which Nixon attempted to manage through wage and price controls. After the 1972 election, price controls began to fail and by 1974 the inflation rate was 12.3%. The annual average rate of consumer price inflation was 9% during his term.
•The single biggest financial event in U.S. history occurred during Burns’ watch. By the early 1970s, as the costs of the Vietnam War and Great Society domestic spending accelerated inflation, the U.S. was running a balance of payments deficit and a trade deficit, the first in the 20th century. Other nations began demanding fulfillment of America’s “promise to pay” — in the form of gold from the U.S., in exchange for paper dollars. The dollar was plunging against all foreign currencies. U.S. gold reserves were being depleted. The world had lost faith in the U.S. government’s will to cut its budget and reduce its trade deficit. To stabilize the economy and combat runaway inflation, on August 15, 1971 President Nixon imposed a 90-day wage and price freeze, a 10% import surcharge, and closed the gold window, making the dollar non-convertible to gold. On that day, the dollar became a piece of paper with no intrinsic value, rather than 1/35th of an ounce of gold. The dollar has lost 93% of its purchasing power versus gold since this fateful decision.
George Miller (1978 – 1979)
•The first Federal Reserve Chairman from private industry who did such a horrible job that he was promoted to Secretary of the Treasury.
•He was a member of the think tank the Club of Rome, which believed the common enemy of humanity is man, so democracy may not be well suited to the tasks ahead. However, the threat of pollution, global warming, water shortages, and famine can be used to fulfill humanity’s need for a common adversary. (Sounds like an early version of Al Gore).
•Jimmy Carter selected Miller in 1978 in the midst of an economic crisis. Inflation was running at 6.7% in 1977 and oil prices were soaring. Miller maintained his Krugman-like Keynesian belief that inflation could “prime the pump” of the economy, and would be self-correcting. He pursued a strongly dovish policy and refused to raise interest rates. The effect of this moronic policy was to send the dollar’s value spiraling downward. In November 1978, only 11 months into his term, the dollar had fallen nearly 34% against the German Mark and almost 42% against the Japanese Yen.
•In an unprecedented example of his weakness, Miller was outvoted by the Board of Governors at a meeting in 1979 where he opposed an increase in the discount rate. When he was “promoted” to Treasury Secretary in 1979 inflation was out of control, running at 14%. A Federal Reserve Chairman with a backbone, Paul Volcker, applied the shock therapy needed to crush inflation.
•Steven Beckner, in his book Back from the Brink: The Greenspan Years described the dreadful politically influenced performance of the Fed Chairmen during the 1970’s:
“Under Arthur Burns, who chaired the Fed from 1970 to 1978, and under G. William Miller, who was chairman from January 1978 to August 1979, the Fed provided the monetary fuel for an inflation that began as a flicker and grew into a fearsome blaze… If Nixon appointee Burns lit the fire, Miller poured gasoline on it during the administration of President Jimmy Carter. Without question the most partisan and least respected chairman in the Fed’s history, this former Textron executive worked in tandem with fellow Carter appointee, Treasury Secretary W. Michael Blumenthal, in pursuit of monetary policies that were expansionist domestically and devaluationist internationally. The goals were to spur employment and exports, with little thought to the dollar’s value. By early 1980, inflation was running at 14%.”
Alan Greenspan (1987 – 2006)
“In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value.” – Alan Greenspan from an article written in 1966 entitled “Gold and Economic Freedom”
•The quote above would indicate a man whose principles in sound economic theory could not be compromised. That proved to be dreadfully wrong, as Alan Greenspan turned out to be the most political, Wall Street pleasing, bubble inducing Chairman of all time. His reign of power set the stage for the greatest financial collapse in U.S. history.
•He studied economics at Columbia under Arthur Burns, where he must have learned how to buckle to political pressure and please whichever party was in power. His pandering to Washington insiders and Wall Street bankers prove that he betrayed his true beliefs in a strong currency backed by gold.
•Alan Greenspan systematically encouraged changes to the CPI index that have understated it by 4% to 5% for two decades. The result has been to cheat senior citizens of their Social Security income, overstate GDP, and artificially keep interest rates low. The insertion of owner’s equivalent rent, replacing steak with hamburger, and hedonistic adjustments were Orwellian measures used to mislead the American public.
•During his first few years as Fed Chairman he successfully handled the stock market crash of 1987 and George Bush blamed him for losing the 1991 election by keeping monetary policy too tight, causing the 1991 recession. He worked well with Bill Clinton in keeping inflation and interest rates on a downward path, resulting in strong economic growth in the 1990’s.
•Greenspan’s hubris and belief in his own infallibility led him to use monetary policy to “save the world” in 1997 and 1998. During the Asian financial crisis of 1997—1998, Greenspan flooded the world with dollars, and organized a Wall Street bailout of the reckless, irresponsible hedge fund Long Term Capital Management. These choices by Greenspan began two decades of bailing out failure. The “Greenspan Put” became known throughout the world. Everyone on Wall Street knew you could take excessive risk and if your gamble failed resulting in “systematic risk”, Greenspan would flood the system with dollars and save your ass.
•After the Dot.com bubble burst, the Y2K phony scare and the 9/11 attacks, Greenspan committed the worst offence of his 20 year monetary reign of terror. Greenspan initiated a series of interest cuts that brought the Federal Funds rate down to 1% in 2004 and left it at that level for over a year. He purposely created a housing bubble in order to artificially prop up the American economy after the huge stock market losses. The excess liquidity unleashed by Greenspan caused lending standards to deteriorate resulting in the housing bubble of 2004-2006 and the market meltdown beginning in 2008. His loose monetary policy resulted in a plunging dollar, surging commodity prices and humungous trade deficits.
•Greenspan’s unyielding belief in unfettered markets, unregulated derivatives, adjustable rate mortgages for all, home equity extraction as a spending source and subprime lending to poor people combined to cause a financial crisis that still threatens to destroy the American financial system. He denies responsibility for the financial crisis, but his own words condemn him:
“Besides sustaining the demand for new construction, mortgage markets have also been a powerful stabilizing force over the past two years of economic distress by facilitating the extraction of some of the equity that homeowners have built up over the years.” – November 2002
“Innovation has brought about a multitude of new products, such as subprime loans and niche credit programs for immigrants. Such developments are representative of the market responses that have driven the financial services industry throughout the history of our country … With these advances in technology, lenders have taken advantage of credit-scoring models and other techniques for efficiently extending credit to a broader spectrum of consumers. … Where once more-marginal applicants would simply have been denied credit, lenders are now able to quite efficiently judge the risk posed by individual applicants and to price that risk appropriately. These improvements have led to rapid growth in subprime mortgage lending; indeed, today subprime mortgages account for roughly 10 percent of the number of all mortgages outstanding, up from just 1 or 2 percent in the early 1990s.” – April 2005
•Alan Greenspan sold his soul to the devil of Washington DC power and influence. He loved the accolades and headlines he received as the most powerful man in the world. The Maestro could pull the levers and make markets do as he wished. The man who knew that Federal Reserve manipulation caused the Great Depression disregarded his own words and caused the worst economic calamity since the Great Depression.
“When business in the United States underwent a mild contraction in 1927, the Federal Reserve created more paper reserves in the hope of forestalling any possible bank reserve shortage. More disastrous, however, was the Federal Reserve’s attempt to assist Great Britain who had been losing gold to us because the Bank of England refused to allow interest rates to rise when market forces dictated (it was politically unpalatable). The reasoning of the authorities involved was as follows: if the Federal Reserve pumped excessive paper reserves into American banks, interest rates in the United States would fall to a level comparable with those in Great Britain; this would act to stop Britain’s gold loss and avoid the political embarrassment of having to raise interest rates. The “Fed” succeeded; it stopped the gold loss, but it nearly destroyed the economies of the world, in the process. The excess credit which the Fed pumped into the economy spilled over into the stock market-triggering a fantastic speculative boom.” – Alan Greenspan from an article written in 1966 entitled “Gold and Economic Freedom”
Ben Bernanke (2006 – ?)
•Harvard trained economist who has spent his entire life in academia and government service. As an “expert” on the Great Depression, Dr. Bernanke is 100% wrong in his assessment of its causes. He believes the Depression was caused by the Federal Reserve reducing the money supply in the early 1930’s. He should talk to the Alan Greenspan from 1966. The Federal Reserve caused the Great Depression through its easy money policies during the 1920’s. The expansion of the money supply led to an unsustainable credit-driven boom. (Hmm. Does this remind you of any similar instances?).
•In his famous 2002 “Helicopter Ben” speech, Bernanke previewed exactly what he would do as Federal Reserve Chairman in the current economic environment. Read his words carefully because he has followed the script to the tee. He has printed over a trillion dollars in the last year. Tax cuts have been rolled out. The dollar is being devalued. The only thing left is confiscation of gold. Is that next? :
“Like gold, U.S. dollars have value only to the extent that they are strictly limited in supply. But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation.”
“Although a policy of intervening to affect the exchange value of the dollar is nowhere on the horizon today, it’s worth noting that there have been times when exchange rate policy has been an effective weapon against deflation. A striking example from U.S. history is Franklin Roosevelt’s 40 percent devaluation of the dollar against gold in 1933-34, enforced by a program of gold purchases and domestic money creation. The devaluation and the rapid increase in money supply it permitted ended the U.S. deflation remarkably quickly.”
“A broad-based tax cut, for example, accommodated by a program of open-market purchases to alleviate any tendency for interest rates to increase, would almost certainly be an effective stimulant to consumption and hence to prices. Even if households decided not to increase consumption but instead re-balanced their portfolios by using their extra cash to acquire real and financial assets, the resulting increase in asset values would lower the cost of capital and improve the balance sheet positions of potential borrowers. A money-financed tax cut is essentially equivalent to Milton Friedman’s famous “helicopter drop” of money.”
•Despite his Ivy League education and all of the supposed brilliant resources at his disposal, Bernanke has shown a remarkable ability to not see the housing bubble or the collapse of the financial system. He was convinced in 2005 that the housing market was strong and healthy. He was sure that the subprime problems were confined and would not spread into the greater economy. He now assures the public that he will know the proper time to withdraw the monstrous amount of stimulus he has pumped into the world economy before hyperinflation takes hold. Does his track record give you comfort that he will correctly figure out the right time to withdrawal the stimulus?
•Bernanke and Hank Paulson used their positions of power to force Ken Lewis, the CEO of Bank of America, to follow through on their acquisition of Merrill Lynch and to withhold knowledge of billions in losses from shareholders and the public. They threatened to remove Lewis as CEO if he did not agree. The SEC should be investigating this cover-up, but is not.
•After promising a more transparent Fed, Bernanke has done the complete opposite. He continues to withhold the names of all financial institutions that have borrowed from the Fed and will not reveal the worthless collateral that they have put up for those loans. The Fed has lent in excess of $2.2 trillion to banks. The Fed has refused to reveal any information regarding these loans. Bloomberg News has sued the Fed under the Freedom of Information Act to force them to reveal where $2.2 trillion of taxpayer money has gone. Investment Manager Ted Forstmann’s opinion was, “It’s your money; it’s not the Fed’s money. Of course there should be transparency.”
•Representative Ron Paul has introduced HR 1207 which would have the GAO audit the Federal Reserve every year and issue a report to Congress. Every public and most private companies have an annual independent audit. It is a reasonable and smart thing to do. Operational weaknesses and fraud are often uncovered in these audits. The bill has 282 co-sponsors. Mr. Transparency Ben Bernanke wants no part of getting audited. Operating in the shadows is preferable. His reasoning is laughable. The Fed has proven to be anything but independent, stability is not the first word that comes to mind when discussing our financial system, and the dollar has lost 95% of its purchasing power since 1913 :
http://theburningplatform.com/economy/the-federal-reserve-must-die-1
Comment on message 98-100:
There you have most of it. You can access the entire article at the website I have provided. You must understand the great harm done by the Fed over the past 95 years. We were warned by our founding fathers that had experienced the harmful effects of a fiat currency. Jens O. Parssens was right on target with his 1974 book, the Dying of Money; the Great German and American Inflations.
What we are witnessing is the final end game of a process that actually began in 1913 with the fate of the US dollar sealed once and for all in 1971. The great progress in our standard of living (especially the past 35 years) has been an illusion. The process is now being reverse as the economy suffers while prices rise. The reality that an economy based on consumption and debt is not sustainable is beginning to hit Americans like a sledge hammer.
All the goodies the politicians offered came with a price that must now be paid. It will be paid through the tax of inflation…..a devalued dollar. Who will suffer the most? The weakest members of any society; i.e., the elderly who are on fixed incomes, children who are a drain on family resources, and the lest educated as they will find it difficult to earn enough to keep up with rising prices.
kash, this is what you have defended with all your heart. Please educate yourself regarding this issue and stop supporting the very people that will enslave the nation. The only ones to prosper will be the richest and most powerful in our society. They will have the means to protect themselves by either investing money in other countries or purchasing assets that actually beat inflation.
Just take a close look at who is calling the shots in Washington. Where is the bailout money going and what are they doing with it. Ask yourself these questions, “Why is the Fed so concerned about opening its books for all the world to see? What do they have to hide? Why have they never been fully audited?