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	<description>Today’s Issues, From a Biblical Perspective!</description>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-28213</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would like 2 put my 2 cents in even though Im not a seminary student or bible scholar  First i was born and raised Roman Cathlolic but i was born again in college in southern california. Giod used a campus minstry Campus cRusade for christ. i heard the gospel for the first time wioth clarity.


i believe mankind is justified by faith alone iin grace alone. Second regrading baprtism  I dont hink we should be cherry picking bible verses to support our  own personal interpretation opf the gospel message.

THe book of Galatians even refers to the danger of headin to a different gospel one of the law and not by grace.
It comes down to context ihtink..
I dont believe  baptism imparts anything.. as i heard it once stated...  you go in as a sinner you come out as a wet sinner.. The only difference is that you are making a public delcaration before the local body of believers that they want to walk in god&#039;s footsteps.. besides what if some never gets baptized like the thief at the cross is he going to hell now?

sorry i dont hink so

repentance and faith are  2 sides of the same coin you repent of your sins and plac your faith in the finshed work of Jesus christ all your sins are washed away

period end of sory you are a christian you are born again you are saved..etc..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like 2 put my 2 cents in even though Im not a seminary student or bible scholar  First i was born and raised Roman Cathlolic but i was born again in college in southern california. Giod used a campus minstry Campus cRusade for christ. i heard the gospel for the first time wioth clarity.</p>
<p>i believe mankind is justified by faith alone iin grace alone. Second regrading baprtism  I dont hink we should be cherry picking bible verses to support our  own personal interpretation opf the gospel message.</p>
<p>THe book of Galatians even refers to the danger of headin to a different gospel one of the law and not by grace.<br />
It comes down to context ihtink..<br />
I dont believe  baptism imparts anything.. as i heard it once stated&#8230;  you go in as a sinner you come out as a wet sinner.. The only difference is that you are making a public delcaration before the local body of believers that they want to walk in god&#8217;s footsteps.. besides what if some never gets baptized like the thief at the cross is he going to hell now?</p>
<p>sorry i dont hink so</p>
<p>repentance and faith are  2 sides of the same coin you repent of your sins and plac your faith in the finshed work of Jesus christ all your sins are washed away</p>
<p>period end of sory you are a christian you are born again you are saved..etc..</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25252</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 00:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25252</guid>
		<description>&quot;God Bless all here.&quot;
Haaaa! That means I can get in on this too!
Thank you for the blessing, grapplin_pt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;God Bless all here.&#8221;<br />
Haaaa! That means I can get in on this too!<br />
Thank you for the blessing, grapplin_pt.</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25250</link>
		<dc:creator>grapplin_pt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 23:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25250</guid>
		<description>Maz, agreed...in defense of others, I do &quot;ask for it&quot; sometimes in debates. Thanks again, God bless all here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maz, agreed&#8230;in defense of others, I do &#8220;ask for it&#8221; sometimes in debates. Thanks again, God bless all here.</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25224</link>
		<dc:creator>mherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 16:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>grapplin_pt:  I&#039;v never been called Herm before, but that&#039;s OK.  I originally logged in as Maz before they changed everything.  And I am female if it makes any difference.
Anyway, we could all do with some encouragement sometimes instead of criticism which seems quite rife on this site at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grapplin_pt:  I&#8217;v never been called Herm before, but that&#8217;s OK.  I originally logged in as Maz before they changed everything.  And I am female if it makes any difference.<br />
Anyway, we could all do with some encouragement sometimes instead of criticism which seems quite rife on this site at the moment.</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25219</link>
		<dc:creator>grapplin_pt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 14:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25219</guid>
		<description>You are right Herm. Thanks for the prudent words. You are wiser than me. I didn&#039;t copy and paste all, only roughly the last half of my posts...and not all of them. Mostly quotes. Thanks again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are right Herm. Thanks for the prudent words. You are wiser than me. I didn&#8217;t copy and paste all, only roughly the last half of my posts&#8230;and not all of them. Mostly quotes. Thanks again.</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25210</link>
		<dc:creator>mherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>grapplin_pt: New bride and new baby on the way....that&#039;s great!
Don&#039;t let those who insist on your own words browbeat you, if you copy and paste what you also believe why does it matter.  God Bless your wife with the safe delivery of your baby. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>grapplin_pt: New bride and new baby on the way&#8230;.that&#8217;s great!<br />
Don&#8217;t let those who insist on your own words browbeat you, if you copy and paste what you also believe why does it matter.  God Bless your wife with the safe delivery of your baby. <img src='http://www.truthtalklive.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25208</link>
		<dc:creator>grapplin_pt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25208</guid>
		<description>Yeah JD42, 
I&#039;ve gotten alot of my info from a catholic website. I don&#039;t claim to memorize what Tertullian said nearly 2,000 years ago or what Scripture says. I can hardly quote any of this stuff even though I know roughly the whereabouts of it. So what if I copied and pasted large portions of it? Jason asked me extremely indepth questions that I haven&#039;t even started to answer fully. I have a new bride, a baby on the way, and a 12-hr. work day currently, so again...so what if I &quot;copied and pasted&quot; to an extent...we are on a CPU and I&#039;m busy. Do I have to invent my own theological thoughts and perspectives? Is it o.k. that I share many of the same views as other authors and thinkers. I realize that in our liberal, anything goes &quot;Christian&quot; society we love to invent our own doctrine. Is it o.k. if I don&#039;t?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah JD42,<br />
I&#8217;ve gotten alot of my info from a catholic website. I don&#8217;t claim to memorize what Tertullian said nearly 2,000 years ago or what Scripture says. I can hardly quote any of this stuff even though I know roughly the whereabouts of it. So what if I copied and pasted large portions of it? Jason asked me extremely indepth questions that I haven&#8217;t even started to answer fully. I have a new bride, a baby on the way, and a 12-hr. work day currently, so again&#8230;so what if I &#8220;copied and pasted&#8221; to an extent&#8230;we are on a CPU and I&#8217;m busy. Do I have to invent my own theological thoughts and perspectives? Is it o.k. that I share many of the same views as other authors and thinkers. I realize that in our liberal, anything goes &#8220;Christian&#8221; society we love to invent our own doctrine. Is it o.k. if I don&#8217;t?</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25194</link>
		<dc:creator>JD42</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jul 2009 01:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25194</guid>
		<description>Jason,

Grapplin is basically cut and pasting from the catholic website, which answers all your questions I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason,</p>
<p>Grapplin is basically cut and pasting from the catholic website, which answers all your questions I think.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25186</link>
		<dc:creator>grapplin_pt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25186</guid>
		<description>Jason Payton: Here are your questions 1) Do you believe that it it Christ’s righteousness alone that is credited to our account so God can accept us? Yes
2) Do believe that righteousness is infused at baptism? 
Few truths are so clearly taught in the New Testament as the doctrine that in baptism God gives us grace. Again and again the sacred writers tell us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). They are unanimous in speaking of baptism in invariably efficient terms, as really bringing about a spiritual effect. 
One key Scripture reference to being &quot;born again&quot; or &quot;regenerated&quot; is John 3:5, where Jesus says, &quot;Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.&quot; 

This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. &quot;Born again&quot; Christians claim the &quot;water&quot; is the preached word of God (some even claim it as the amniotic fluid they lived in as infants in their mother&#039;s womb).

But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5). 

No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism. 

 
Justin Martyr


&quot;As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]&quot; (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]). 

 
Irenaeus


&quot;‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’&quot; (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]). 
 Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: &quot;Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted&quot;
3) Do you believe that an individual who actually has been credited with the righteousness of Christ can thereafter be again credited with the wickedness of Adam? In other words, can one lose their salvation? 
Christian author Wilson Ewin says that &quot;no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit.&quot; 

One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement. 

The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible. 

Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an &quot;absolute&quot; assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: &quot;See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off&quot; (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jason Payton: Here are your questions 1) Do you believe that it it Christ’s righteousness alone that is credited to our account so God can accept us? Yes<br />
2) Do believe that righteousness is infused at baptism?<br />
Few truths are so clearly taught in the New Testament as the doctrine that in baptism God gives us grace. Again and again the sacred writers tell us that it is in baptism that we are saved, buried with Christ, incorporated into his body, washed of our sins, regenerated, cleansed, and so on (see Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 6:1–4; 1 Cor. 6:11, 12:13; Gal. 3:26–27; Eph. 5:25-27; Col. 2:11–12; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 3:18–22). They are unanimous in speaking of baptism in invariably efficient terms, as really bringing about a spiritual effect.<br />
One key Scripture reference to being &#8220;born again&#8221; or &#8220;regenerated&#8221; is John 3:5, where Jesus says, &#8220;Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.&#8221; </p>
<p>This verse is so important that those who say baptism is just a symbol must deny that Jesus here refers to baptism. &#8220;Born again&#8221; Christians claim the &#8220;water&#8221; is the preached word of God (some even claim it as the amniotic fluid they lived in as infants in their mother&#8217;s womb).</p>
<p>But the early Christians uniformly identified this verse with baptism. Water baptism is the way, they said, that we are born again and receive new life—a fact that is supported elsewhere in Scripture (Rom. 6:3–4; Col. 2:12–13; Titus 3:5). </p>
<p>No Church Father referred to John 3:5 as anything other than water baptism. </p>
<p>Justin Martyr</p>
<p>&#8220;As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]&#8221; (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]). </p>
<p>Irenaeus</p>
<p>&#8220;‘And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan’ [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: ‘Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’&#8221; (Fragment 34 [A.D. 190]).<br />
 Luther affirmed the necessity of baptism. He wrote: &#8220;Baptism is no human plaything but is instituted by God himself. Moreover, it is solemnly and strictly commanded that we must be baptized or we shall not be saved. We are not to regard it as an indifferent matter, then, like putting on a new red coat. It is of the greatest importance that we regard baptism as excellent, glorious, and exalted&#8221;<br />
3) Do you believe that an individual who actually has been credited with the righteousness of Christ can thereafter be again credited with the wickedness of Adam? In other words, can one lose their salvation?<br />
Christian author Wilson Ewin says that &#8220;no wrong act or sinful deed can ever affect the believer’s salvation. The sinner did nothing to merit God’s grace and likewise he can do nothing to demerit grace. True, sinful conduct always lessens one’s fellowship with Christ, limits his contribution to God’s work and can result in serious disciplinary action by the Holy Spirit.&#8221; </p>
<p>One problem with this argument is that this is not even how things work in everyday life. If another person gives us something as a grace—as a gift—and even if we did nothing to deserve it (though frequently gifts are given based on our having pleased the one bestowing the gift), it in no way follows that our actions are irrelevant to whether or not we keep the gift. We can lose it in all kinds of ways. We can misplace it, destroy it, give it to someone else, take it back to the store. We may even forfeit something we were given by later displeasing the one who gave it—as when a person has been appointed to a special position but is later stripped of that position on account of mismanagement. </p>
<p>The argument fares no better when one turns to Scripture, for one finds that Adam and Eve, who received God’s grace in a manner just as unmerited as anyone today, most definitely did demerit it—and lost grace not only for themselves but for us as well (cf. also Rom. 11:17-24). While the idea that what is received without merit cannot be lost by demerit may have a kind of poetic charm for some, it does not stand up when compared with the way things really work—either in the everyday world or in the Bible. </p>
<p>Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an &#8220;absolute&#8221; assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: &#8220;See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off&#8221; (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).</p>
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		<link>http://www.truthtalklive.com/2009/07/14/is-there-a-difference-between-justification-sanctification/#comment-25077</link>
		<dc:creator>grapplin_pt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 15:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.truthtalklive.com/?p=2598#comment-25077</guid>
		<description>Well Bernie, I hope you aren&#039;t equating this phenomena with my posts. That would be totally inaccurate. Again, I keep having to revisit this sub-topic because of the false assumptions of Jason and now you (as it appears). Jason didn&#039;t like the diversion from his main points, but if your main points are presented with false assumptions and myths then those must be addressed first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Bernie, I hope you aren&#8217;t equating this phenomena with my posts. That would be totally inaccurate. Again, I keep having to revisit this sub-topic because of the false assumptions of Jason and now you (as it appears). Jason didn&#8217;t like the diversion from his main points, but if your main points are presented with false assumptions and myths then those must be addressed first.</p>
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