What is the biggest problem facing America today?
Posted by truthtalklive on 31 December, 2008
Join guest host Dr. Michael Brown as he takes your calls and focuses on the greatest problem facing America today. Is it the breakdown of the family? Abortion? The economy? Homosexual activism? Potential terrorist attacks? Sexual immorality? The education system? The state of the Church? Something else? If we can identify the biggest problems, we can focus on the solutions! Check out Fire School of Ministry at www.icnministries.org. As always thanks for listening and we look foward to your comments!
95 Comments on “What is the biggest problem facing America today?”
Apathy in all matters not directly effecting the personal life of an individual?
There is an epidemic of Narcissism.
Too much hate.
.Too much irresponsibility.
Not enough atheists.
Fear
Apathy.
Definitely homosexual activism. Seriously, if I made a list of the problems with America like: the economy, our tendency to start wars, work ethic, Paulson stealing billions of dollars from the government, the president, Duke university…
None would come close to homosexual activism. /rolls eyes.
Second only to the evils inspired by Evolutionary Science, the teaching of an ancient universe/world, and the growing infiltration of Paganism into this Christian world, eh Stanley?[grin]
Biblical illiteracy
Heaven forbid we figure out what is going on!
Hello Janice, I don’t know if your familiar with it, but just for fun check out the quiz on Jesus Christ presented on another blog on this site, on the site titled “Is Christmas: Christian or Pagan?” in December 17th, at the bottom of post 20 by someone named “Don”.
Agreed, Janice.
Janice #10: Absolutely.
How would you know Maz? You’re not even in America.
John: You don’t have to be in a country to know what ’s happening in it. If all you know is what’s happening in your own country then you are ignorant of what’s happening in the rest of the world. I watch the news apart from other things from America.
And thus Maz you conclude that Biblical illiteracy is the biggest problem facing America these days?
Personally I would put our floundering economy, problems caused due to illegal immigration, environmental destruction/pollution, and the revival of Young Earth Creationism in the early twentieth century far above the problem of Biblical “illiteracy”.
John: Whether you know it or believe it or not the biggest problem in America is Spiritual.
Would you like to elaborate a little more on this, Maz?
I am interested in your opinions on what you think it would take to help make America “better”.
John: You wouldn’t understand or accept it if I told you.
[voice of Anthony Hopkins character "Hannibal Lecter"] Not accept, most surely, but not understand….well that remains to be seen[smile]. I may understand a great deal more than you would believe.
Try me, Maz. Please do feel free to just let loose and go on and on.
Besides, I am not the only American who reads these posts. Your foreign insight may prove helpful for your fellow spiritual brothers and sisters across the pond, did you ever think of that?
It is our fear that keeps us from living by the Holy Spirit. The problems this country faces at this point aren’t because homosexuals are getting married in Massachusetts and California, but because we continue to claim to trust in God but really we don’t trust anyone. We want the Federal Government to interfere in everyone’s lives but our own. We want a high standard of living but we don’t want to make any sacrifices so that other countries might be able to enjoy even a slight improvement in their own standard. We are afraid of each other and of other countries, and it shows in the wars that we fight and the economic policies we vote for. If we REALLY lived as Jesus instructs, we would have to make sacrifices far beyond what any President has ever asked of us. And yet I suspect in the end we would be happier and more secure than we are right now in our gated communities and Hummers.
Fear drives out faith. What good is it to argue about the inerrancy of the Bible when most Christians don’t follow the most basic, straightforward teachings of the sermon on the mount?
I think that was very well put, Kash.
John: And we all know what Hannibal Lecter was like.
Let me put it quite succinctly…….America needs to get back to God. The Churches need to get back to God and the Word in the way they were meant to live. This is happening in England too, not much happens in America that doesn’t eventually happen in Britain. Lawlessness has become a real big problem now, shootings and stabbings every day…………you wouldn’t have believed this 20-30 years ago.
The Church needs revival…………the real kind, not just having a spiritual knees up and feeling good afterwards….not hyped up and jazzed up. I for one, want a real Holy Ghost revival, in my own life and in the Church, here and world wide……….we need it before the world will see Who Jesus really is.
America is faced with two evils……Islam and the up and coming Europian Union. This is going to lead to the One World Governement, eventually headed by the Anti-Christ. We already feel the anti-Christian whip on out backs……….making laws that limit our freedoms to worship in public. Not being able to display the ten commandments in public, not having prayer in schools, and I’m sure you will have noticed (possibly) more politically correct rules and regulations that impede the walk of Christians in America.
Obama………….the name echoes down the corridors of government now. Is he the wolf in sheeps clothing? Keep your eyes open………the Church needs to waken up to the hour and pray like never before. The hour is coming and is almost upon us when Christians will suffer persicution…………in what was once Christian America………it will come to Britain too. There are so many more things I could say, there is much happening today that shows we are heading for the One World Governement, the One World religion and the dictatorship of the Anti-Christ himself. BUT……he will not have the last word….Praise God! Because in the end……….the LORD returns in victory!! Not as Savior and servant…………but the King of kings and Lord of Lords. And He shall reign from Jerusalem.
I hope this is enough to satisfy your interest.
Hannibal Lecter is my hero[Huge Sharp-Toothed Grin].
Ferox: You’d probably get on well together.
Yes, we have much in common.
“Obama………….the name echoes down the corridors of government now. Is he the wolf in sheeps clothing? Keep your eyes open………the Church needs to waken up to the hour and pray like never before. The hour is coming and is almost upon us when Christians will suffer persicution…………in what was once Christian America………”
Good grief. How are we supposed to work on America’s problems when Christians are so gleeful every time something bad happens because that means Armageddon must be coming? The Lord’s prayer says, “Thy kingdom come, they will be done, as earth as it is in Heaven” NOT “Thy kingdom is coming so all you sinners watch out, you’re going to be sorry”. And if Jesus doesn’t come back during Obama’s term, will all of you please finally stop reading Revelations and Newsweek trying to force a match????? You know, Christians around the world already face persecution, and have always faced persecution. Why does it have to happen in America or Britain to count as being what prophecy meant? You know, the United States in NOT mentioned by name in the Bible, even though American Christians (and some British ones) act like we’re the new chosen nation or something, that everything in the Bible must be specifically about us and our relationship with the world. What hubris. How un-Christ like.
Kash: Gleeful I am not. And what is this angry sounding attitude towards me? I read my Bible and see things that you don’t see………or apparently don’t want to see. That is your choice. At the end of the day, if you are wrong, you will wish you had been more discerning in these last days…..for in the last days we are whether you believe it or not. To be ready is better than to be igorant.
And P.T.O, I certainly don’t think we (Britain) or you (USA) are a new chosen nation………….Israel is still Gods chosen nation, and God still has a plan for their destiny.
How do you know that you are living in the “Last Days” Maz. Does not Scripture state that nobody will actually know when the last days are, only that they are always at least roughly seven years away?
Oh, and thank you for your elaboration within post 24.
John: Jesus said we would not know ‘the day or the hour’, He never said we wouldn’t have a clue.
And where do you get 7 years from?
America’s Christians have left their first love and have become lukewarm. We have hunkered in the bunker for so long waiting on the Lord to come again we have lost all contact with the culture at large. For the most part the “visible church” has spent the past half century trying to white wash tombs and reform the sinner instead of living the Gospel in order to bring life to the dead.
Ahh, but you see, Maz, not being a dispensationalist I do NOT believe that Israel is still God’s chosen people. Christ died for everyone. Everyone is God’s chosen people, they simply must in turn choose God.
Maz, how do you account for Christians in the past who thought that they too “had a clue” and predicted the End Days were upon them, over and over, for centuries…..
As to your question about where I came up with seven years, I got it from reading about the seven year tribulation within Mat.24:37-42.
John, not everyone thinks that applies to a seven year tribulation. This tribulation scenario is not found in the Bible. This theory is created by combining interpretations of various passages from both the Old Testament and New Testament, assuming they are related, and piecing them together into this theory of prophecy. Consider:
1. Jesus never said the tribulation would be 7 years.
2. Jesus said all would happen in their generation.
3. Jesus never suggested any sizable time gaps between the signs.
4. Jesus never said the Antichrist would rule the world.
5. Jesus never said the tribulation would involve the entire world.
6. Jesus never suggested the temple would be rebuilt after it was torn down. There is no prophecy in the entire Bible that a fourth and future temple will be built.
7. Jesus never said the first half of this tribulation would be prosperous, while the second half would be the time of great distress.
8. Jesus never said Armageddon would bring an end to the entire world.
Kash: #35. You are right to a certain degree. Jesus died for all……….Jew and Gentile. His Church can consist of Jew and Gentile….one in Christ. But the NATION of Israel still has promises left to be fulfilled that were made by God to them (to Abraham) (and not wanting to go into all the detail about Daniels 70 weeks etc. because this subject is vast and there are many scriptures and related prophecies to do with the regathering of Israel and the prophecies concerning the last days in Ezekiel and Revelation) they shall recogise their Messiah when He coes again and they shall weep knowing that they crucified Him when He came the first time. When you have Israel out of the picture, the picture becomes distorted and thats where you get problems in other areas of theology, I can always recognise these errors when people start talking about Israel.
Jihn #36. They were in error.
And the 7 years Tribulation will occur, the question is when….and we don’t know that, although I believe it will happen after the Rapture of the Church which is spoken of in 2 Thess: 2.
OOps Jihn!!!..
.I mean John!
Kash: You say a lot about what Jesus didn’t say while He was on the earth (and there are a lot of things He didn’t say)….but what about what the Bible says about these things. The scriptures do harmonise when speaking about the last days and what will happen then……..it is faulty interpretation and erroneous beliefs that want to twist scriptures into a certain belief system. Very much like the belief in evolution and then looking for and trying to fit the scriptures into this belief system. It really does’nt work and creates problems in other areas of theology.
1 - I am not trying to fit evolution into the scriptures. THe scriptures do not address evolution or any other scientific topic. Science is a human endeavor to understand GOd’s creation. THe scriptures are the story of God’s dealings with humans. THey are separate, but not necessarily antagonistic.
2 - Your interpretation of the end times is only one of several. Many denominations and theological scholars disagree with it. You seem to be unaware of the fact that there is much about the Bible that Christian scholars and denominations do not agree on, even disagreement between groups that claim the Bible is inerrant and literal without any symbolic language.
3 - THe Abrahamaic covenant was, like the later Mosaic covenant, conditional. Ancient Israel did not keep their end of the bargain. THus Jesus the CHrist and the extension of the covenant to all people, with Jesus being the new temple, torn down and rebuilt in 3 days.
4 - THe verses in Daniel about the 70 weeks never mention a gap between week 69 and 70. THat is ADDED into the Bible by men.
5 - I disagree with you on many theological points, but I don’t think that means you are a bad Christian. I think it just demonstrates that being dogmatic about anything in the Bible except Jesus leads one to make the same mistake as the Pharisees, and they made the worst mistake of all: they didn’t recognize the messiah even though they knew the scriptures better than anyone. So I engage in dialogue with you in a spirit of love and fellowship, even though my tone may be sarcastic or snarky at times.
Kash: ”1 - I am not trying to fit evolution into the scriptures.”
You may not realise it but you are.
”THe scriptures do not address evolution or any other scientific topic”
The scriptures do agree with scientific discoveries……….take our planet for example ”hanging on nothing” as Job put it. Would he have known that then? God did, because he hung it there!
But I agree that the scriptures do not address evolution because that is not how God created. His account is clearly seen in Genesis 1, and how people try to dismiss it as allegory is beyond me.
”2 - Your interpretation of the end times is only one of several”
I agree, but only one can be right.
”Many denominations and theological scholars disagree with it”
I agree, and many denominations and theological scholars disagree with yours.
”You seem to be unaware of the fact that there is much about the Bible that Christian scholars and denominations do not agree on”
How did you come to that conclusion? You are absolutely incorrect about your assumption.
Number 3………..incorrect but I havn’t the time to go into covenants with you. It probably (ha ha) wouldn’t make any difference anyway.
Number 4. Just because it isn’t mentioned there doesn’t mean it isn’t there in reality. Many prophecies appear together, when in fact there are hundreds of years between them, read Isaiah 53. And the scripture Jesus read in Luke 4.
I am glad we can recognise that we both are Christians and love the Lord, even though we disagree on what the Bible teaches. (And I do think it is important that we ”rightly divide the Word of Truth” as we are exhorted to study the scriptures). Maybe we should leave it there, as I don’t feel we shall be moved either way to change our beliefs.
Kash, #42, I wanted to comment on what you said about the Abrahamic Covenent. The Abrahamic Covenent was not conditional. It was a blood covenent that God made with Abram regarding the land.Read Genesis 15 it gives the details of the Blood covenent. A blood covenent was not a light thing to enter into, for once entered into those who walked through the blood were bound by their lives to keep the covenent. In this case God alone walked through the blood because only He could keep the covenent made with Abram. The covenent was not contignent on anything Abram did, it was given to him by God for his belief in the Lord.(cf Gen 15:6-7) This was done for Abram’s belief and obedience to God to that point. Later God made conditions to Joshua and the Children of Israel regarding their continued dwelling in the land but the land given to Abram and his descendents is for as long as God is able to keep the covenent he made with Abram, and that is forever.
Don: Thanks for enlightening Kash on Gods everlasting covenant to Abraham.
Romans 11 v 1: Paul writes ”I say then, has God cast away His people? GOD FORBID. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham…”
But the part of God’s everlasting covenant with Abraham that was unconditional was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. And Maz, the rest of Chapter 11 goes on to explain how the the Gentiles are now offered salvation because of the stumbling of the Israelites, who can also share in that if they too acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah.
If you read Chapter 9 through 11 of Romans as a whole, you can see that Paul sees Christians (both Jewish and Gentile Christians) as now being the true offspring of Abraham, NOT the unbelieving Jews.
Also, Galations 3:29 says: Of you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs acccording to the promise.
So if you want to support the nation of Israel in its current manifestation, for all means do so. But understand that you are not necessarily supporting a nation that is Biblically ordained or somehow favored by God.
Oops. Should have been “If you belong to Christ” rather than “Of”. Sorry.
Kash: Do you notice v25-26 of Romans 11? Israel if grafted in again. And we are warned not to boast against them.
Correction: Israel is grafted in…..
Since I have spent every Christmas eve since I was 8 years old with a Jewish family, I certainly would not boast against them. I learned most of my Christian camp songs from the patriarch of that family (long story!). Just curious: do you think Israel is going to be grafted in even without accepting the Messiah?
Kash: They will one day see their Messiah ”whom they pierced”, the scriptures say they will be saved ”in a day”. Their time is coming. Read Amos 9 v 15. What happened in May 1948 is the fulfillment of that prophecy. Do you still think God has no plans for Israel??
Kash: And I don’t know if I mentioned this before but I have Jewish ancestry on my fathers side.
“Read Amos 9 v 15. What happened in May 1948 is the fulfillment of that prophecy.” Maybe. Maybe not. THat remains to be seen, dont you think? I mean, since Amos wrote those words the nation of Israel has come and gone twice before. Maybe the third time will be the charm, eh?
” Do you still think God has no plans for Israel??” He has plans for Israel all right. The question is, which Israel? THe Israel that consists of all believers in Christ? The secular state of Israel that is currently engaged in a violent tit-for-tat with Hamas resulting in alot of death and destruction, including for Palestinian Christians? Some future manifestation of Israel we can’t even imagine any more than the second-temple Hebrews could have imagined the Nation of Israel today? I jus think its best not to be too certain. Might make you wage a war God never intended or desired.
Kash: Gods Word states by Amos: ”I will plant Israel IN THEIR OWN LAND, NEVER AGAIN TO BE UPROOTED…”
Has not Israel been planted in their own land? Were they planted in their own land again in 1948? If you answer anything but yes, then you have a problem with what scripture……..what God Himself ….has said and you have a problem with what He has done to fulfill that prophecy.
Kash: You said you don’t boast against the Jews…but you are if you say that God has replaced Israel with the Church, or that we are the Israel of God and not the Jewish people.
Do you understand what the Bible teaches about ”the Gentile times” and what the scriptures speak about ”until the Gentile times are fulfilled”? When are these Gentile times fulfilled? And what about ”Jacobs trouble”?
My point was: When Amos wrote that, it was before the Babylonian overthrow of Israel. Then later, the Israelites returned for about 600 years. Then the ROmans destroyed the temple in 70 AD and the Israelites were scattered for a second time. So my point is, twice Israel has been uprooted since those words. So how do you know that THIS time is the time they won’t be uprooted?
You know what I love about the book of AMos? Even though it was written almost 800 years before Christ, if you read it in its entirety it has alot in common with His message. Amos warns the Israelites about their idolatry, their greed, their expoitation of the poor, overlooking injustice, materialism, etc.
Maz, you have to remember that I am NOT a dispensationalist. THus I think splitting the Bible into dispensations such as the “gentile times” is a theological blunder.
As far as replacing Israel with the church….um…well, I take my Lord literally when he says we have to believe in Him to be saved. Ergo, I guess I do think we have “replaced” the Jews in a way, but its more like the Hebrews/Israelites that believed in Christ and the gentiles that beleived in Christ became the new “Israel” (more commonly called Christians), while the Hebrews that denied him simply became the Jews. THey are no better or no worse than Christians, but they are not saved and have removed themselves from the eternal promises of our Lord until they accept Him as their savior, same as all humans.
THe other thing I like about Amos is when he calls women who oppress the poor and order around their husbands “cows”. I try to keep that in mind when I am tempted to give my husband a bunch of “honey-dos”.
Kash: ”So how do you know that THIS time is the time they won’t be uprooted?”
Are you kidding? After 2,500 years? Becoming a nation again, with their own government, their own language, their own army, and their own land? The victory of the 6 day war in 1967. This little nation is being divinely protected against the giants around them. God promised to regather Israel from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE WORLD, and He has and is doing that right now. I say this is their time. It was the miracle of the 20th century.
Kash: So you have no explanation about what the Gentile times mean? What is Luke 21 talking about then?
Kash: And what is the point you are making in #60….precisely?
Ok, well, I hope you’re right. But I hope the United States doesn’t get involved militarily in that mess over there, and I hope we don’t bomb ourselves to oblivion too early and we all die before Jesus comes back. That would be ironic in the extreme.
#60 was an attempt at a self effacing joke to lighten the mood.
Kash: Look up for your redemption draws near.
Kash: #65 Ah right.
I’m already redeemed.
Kash: Yes, but your body isn’t. You still have that old body that can’t enter heaven unless it is changed into a glorious body, and that will only happen when you die or are caught up by Christ when He comes in the clouds for His Church (but you don’t believe that do you?) so who knows…..
Hey Maz, just curious: I know from previous posts that you don’t trust either radiocarbon or radioisotope dating. But do you also discount it when Biblical archaeologists use radiocarbon dating to support their finds that are consistent with the Bible? (Moderator: I know this is off topic, but my laptop can’t load the 2000 messages on the most recent evolution thread). Maz, please just answer yes or no, so we don’t get in trouble with the moderator.
I never said I don’t believe in the second coming. I do. I just don’t believe it will happen on your timeline.
Kash: I can’t answer that one as I havn’t got any data concerning any particular instance of these methods being used. I would have to have information on who, what and where.
And it isn’t my timeline, it is Gods.
Kash: Just found the scripture concerning the redemption of our bodies. Romans 8 v 20-23. It also mentions the creation ”itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption…”
Yes, I know. I believe in the second coming of Christ. What I don’t believe in is TWO second comings: one, a secret rapture of the church, followed by a second one after 7 years of tribulation. He will return ONCE, then He will reign in peace.
I’ve got to go - talk to you later.
Kash: What is spoken of in 1 Thess: 4 v 13-18 and in Zech: 14 v 4 (read all of it, very interesting prophecy) are two different ‘comings’ as you can see. One is to ”the air” and to ”the clouds” for His Church, the other is to the earth to fight for His people the Jews, ”His feet shall stand in that day upon the Mount of Olives”,……this is what He told His disciples when He left. But you see the Jews thought His first coming would be to become King…….well they got that wrong, and crucified Him for it. Let us not get it wrong when He comes for His own in the clouds lest we miss it, if that is possible. Hebrews 9 v 28.
But if there is no 7 year (Daniels 70th week…which has still to be fulfilled) period between the two then where does the tribulation fit in? It certainly isn’t happening now, and hasn’t happened in the past because it is JACOBS trouble, not ours. Must go also, it is 23.37 here!!
My goodness, look what I help start here.
Kash, thank you for your post 37. Yes, I had considered all of this. It’s not my theology, which is why I posed the question as I did within post 31. I mentioned the scripture to see where it would lead things with Maz. This is interesting reading for me.
Kash, going back to comment 46, (I know,it seems like ancient history). Christ was not the unconditional part of the Abrahamic covenent. Christ is the New Covenent. The Blood covenent in Genesis 15 is specifically in regards to the land. I know there are many out htere who subscribe to “replacement theology” ie. the New Testament Church has replace Israel as God’s chosen people. But the Bible specifically states that we gentile believers are adopted into the family, Ephesians 2:11-12, “Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands–remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
Our inclusion as Gentile believers does not annul nor preclude the specific promises God made to the Children of Israel. Legally God is bound by the covenent He made with Abram, and Legally we Gentile believers do not have claim to inherit any of that promise.
Jeremiah confirms the Abrahamic covenant and recognizes the Mosaic covenant and foretells the Messianic covenent (fulfilled in Christ Jesus) in Chapter 31:31-40, “”Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” Thus says the LORD, who gives the sun for light by day and the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar– the LORD of hosts is his name: “If this fixed order departs from before me, declares the LORD, then shall the offspring of Israel cease from being a nation before me forever.” Thus says the LORD: “If the heavens above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth below can be explored, then I will cast off all the offspring of Israel for all that they have done, declares the LORD.” “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when the city shall be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. And the measuring line shall go out farther, straight to the hill Gareb, and shall then turn to Goah. The whole valley of the dead bodies and the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be sacred to the LORD. It shall not be uprooted or overthrown anymore forever.” The sun still rises, the moon and stars are still in their orbits, the heavens still cannot be measured nor have the foundations of the earth been explored. God cannot lie.
Don: AMEN! I love Gods Word! I do appreciate your input. Blessed be the LORD God of Israel, for He keeps His promises to His people! Shalom!
Don, I wouldnt call what I believe “replacement theory.” I simply believe there is one salvation both for Jews and Gentiles. Now and forever. With the way dispensationalists interpret scripture, God is legally bound by all sorts of things. To me, to say that God is legally bound is ridiculous. He’s God. ANd of course God can’t lie. He is the truth. WHich is why the whole dispensationalist framework falls apart for me. Again, I don’t think we should be dogmatic about the end times. It is not necessary for salvation, it gets in the way of witnessing to people (it puts a stumbling block to belief because it is so complicated in some scenarios), and if you believe that Israel must be inhabited only by Jews you are basically encouraging the destruction of the Palestinian people, some of whom, I should remind you, are members of the oldest Christian community on earth. I will never trust any Biblical interpretation that seems to contradict the unconditional love and forgiveness and hope offered to all people equally by Christ.
Kash: God sometimes makes covenants and promises that He is legally bound to, He made the covenant so that He would be bound to it. That is Gods nature. He makes the rules, He can either break them or He can be bound to them. Because He is love, and loves us, He chooses to be bound by the covenants and promises He has made to us. It seems you do not know God as well as you should. I am never dogmatic unless I see people deliberately changing and misinterpreting scripture to say what it doesn’t mean, and to explain away scriptures that oppose their position. Israel as a nation is still in Gods plans, and Jews are included in salvation. God promised Israel the land, and the land they shall get.
And as I said before, if all this wasn’t important, but we just have to witness Jesus to people, why did God have it all written down for us? He wants us to know the times and the seasons that we are in, so that we are ready for what is coming………..and Jesus is One Person that I am eager to see! Aren’t you?
And the Palestinian people would be free to live in the land if they didn’t seem so crazy about killing all the Jews that live in their own land………Gods land. Even in the OT, there were those who joined Israel as sojourners, they were welcomed to go along on their journeying as long as they didn’t worship foreign gods. Ruth was a Moabitess but she was the g…………grandmother of David! Also a prostitute called Rahab is in the Messianic line!
Maz, I’ll have to disagree with you on one point. You said, “He makes the rules, He can either break them or He can be bound to them.” On this I beg to differ. God can do nothing against His nature. He is bound by who he is. If God can break His own word when He will’s, then He is capricious and changable. That is a contridiction with the immutable nature of God. That would also make Him a liar; to say one thing and do another. God cannot do anything contrary to his own perfect and holy nature. So when God makes a covenent where He is the surety then that covenant is forever, everlasting. So (kash) it is not ridiculous to say God is legally bound by such a contract for He is bound by the greatest Law in creation and that is His word. His word and His nature are the very reasons we can have total faith in what the Bible says, His word is immutable. When He inspired men to write what He revealed to them and then had Scripture testify to the truth of that inspiration He bound Himself to the scripture in an inseperable way. You cannot then take what God has joined together and cherry pick what parts of the Bible you are willing to believe. Because of the Nature of God and who He is it is all or nothing. There is no halfway, and that is where man has a problem with the exclusivity of God and Salvation.
Don: I didn’t mean He WOULD break any covenants or promises, only that if He is God He can do what He likes…..but ofcourse He won’t do anything against His nature….I agree.
What if he changed his nature?
John, He can’t. Why? Because He can’t lie. Why not? Because He has made the absolute claim that He cannot lie, so if God were to lie it would negate everything He has ever claimed to be. He cannot change His nature because He is immutable, He says “I change not.” If God changed His nature then He would be a liar. (how many murders does on have to commit in order to be a murderer? One How many lies does one have to tell to be a liar? One)
I ask you this question, can someone, on their own, without influence from an outside source change their basic nature? One may reform some of their behaviours but can one change their basic nature?
In regard to the future, everyone should visit Google and type in “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “Pretrib Rapture Diehards,” “Letter from Mrs. Billy Graham,” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” and “Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts.” Jack
Thanks for the links, will certainly have a look. But…… ”I’ll be back!” as a famous character once said.
John: God is God, He is Who He is, Unchangeable. If not, how could we trust Him?
hi. I’m only 16, but from a kids stand point, you people are acting pretty ignorant right now.
maybe if we all focused on trying to understand one another instead of just saying that were right and any one thats disagrees is wrong, then maybe we could all come together as a country and figure out how to battle the biggest problems in America.
Betty: Hi! It’ great to have someone your age interested in the web site. This is a Christian web site for those who want to debate some of the most important topics, ofcourse some more important than others, from a Biblical view point. We are all free here to give our point of view and sometimes, though we may disagree……and some very disagreeably…..we do learn a lot about what other people believe and think.
As a Christian I believe very strongly in what the Bible teaches, but I don’t come on here just to say I am right and others are wrong, I hope….and pray…..that those who do not believe in the truth will come to know it…….will come to know Jesus Christ (if they don’t know Him yet) and be blessed.
I’m from Britain, and I do my battle here against evil and the problems of my country, but that doesn’t stop me from coming here to share what I know from Gods Word.
You didn’t say whether you were a Christian. We hope you will stick around so we can benefit from your imput.
and know for sure we know religion is one of the biggest problems america is facing today
How?
Why?
If you would, please elaborate for us Kyle.
Famous Rapture Watchers - Addendum
by Dave MacPherson
(The statements in my “Famous Rapture Watchers” web article appeared in my 1983 book “The Great Rapture Hoax” and quoted only past leaders. Here are the other leaders who were quoted in that original printing.)
Oswald J. Smith: “…I am absolutely convinced that there will be no rapture before the Tribulation, but that the Church will undoubtedly be called upon to face the Antichrist…” (Tribulation or Rapture - Which?, p. 2).
Paul B. Smith: “You are perfectly free to quote me as believing rather emphatically in the post-tribulation teaching of the Bible” (letter dated June 9, 1976).
S. I. McMillen: “…Christians will suffer in the Great Tribulation” (Discern These Times, p. 55).
Norman F. Douty: “…all of the evidence of history runs one way - in favor of Post-tribulationism” (Has Christ’s Return Two Stages?, p. 113).
Leonard Ravenhill: “There is a cowardly Christianity which…still comforts its fainting heart with the hope that there will be a rapture - perhaps today - to catch us away from coming tribulation” (Sodom Had No Bible, p. 94).
William Hendriksen: “…the one and only second coming of Christ to judgment” (Israel in Prophecy, p. 29).
Loraine Boettner: “Hence we conclude that nowhere in Scripture does it teach a secret or pre-tribulation Rapture” (The Millennium, p. 168).
J. Sidlow Baxter: “…believers of the last days (there is only one small part of the total Church on earth at any given moment) will be on earth during the so-called ‘Great Tribulation’ ” (Explore the Book, Vol. 6, p. 345).
Merrill C. Tenney: “There is no convincing reason why the seer’s being ‘in the Spirit’ and being called into heaven [Revelation 4:1-2] typifies the rapture of the church…” (Interpreting Revelation, p. 141).
James R. Graham: “…there is not a line of the N.T. that declares a pre-tribulation rapture, so its advocates are compelled to read it into certain indeterminate texts…” (Watchman, What of the Night?, p. 79).
Ralph Earle: “The teaching of a pre-tribulation rapture seems first to have been emphasized widely about 100 years ago by John Darby of the Plymouth Brethren” (Behold, I Come, p. 74).
Clarence B. Bass: “…I most strongly believe dispensationalism to be a departure from the historic faith…” (Backgrounds to Dispensationalism, p. 155).
William C. Thomas: “The return of Jesus Christ, described by parousia, revelation, and epiphany, is one single, glorious, triumphant event for which we all wait with great eagerness!” (The Blessed Hope in the Thessalonian Epistles of Paul, p. 42).
Harold J. Ockenga: “No exegetical justification exists for the arbitrary separation of the ‘coming of Christ’ and the ‘day of the Lord.’ It is one ‘day of the Lord Jesus Christ’ ” (Christian Life, February, 1955).
Duane Edward Spencer: “Paul makes it very clear that the Church will pass through the Great Tribulation” (”Rapture-Tribulation” cassette).
J. C. Maris: “Nowhere the Bible teaches that the Church of Jesus Christ is heading for world dominion. On the contrary - there will be no place for her, save in ‘the wilderness,’ where God will take care of her (Rev. 12:13-17)” (I.C.C.C. leaflet “The Danger of the Ecumenical Movement,” p. 2).
F. F. Bruce: “To meet the Lord [I Thessalonians 4:17]…on the final stage of…[Christ's] journey…to the earth…” (New Bible Commentary: Revised, p. 1159).
G. Christian Weiss: “Some people say that this ['gospel of the kingdom' in Matthew 24:14] is not the gospel of grace but is a special aspect of the gospel to be preached some time in the future. But there is nothing in the context to indicate this” (”Back to the Bible” broadcast, February 9, 1976).
Pat Brooks: “Soon we, in the Body of Christ, will be confronted by millions of people disillusioned by such false teaching [Pre-Tribism]” (Hear, O Israel, p. 186).
Herman Hoeksema: “…the time of Antichrist, when days so terrible are still to arrive for the church…” (Behold, He Cometh!, p. 131).
Ray Summers: “Because they [Philadelphia] have been faithful, he promises his sustaining grace in the tribulation…” (Worthy Is the Lamb, p. 123).
George E. Ladd: “[Pretribulationism] may be guilty of the positive danger of leaving the Church unprepared for tribulation when Antichrist appears…” (The Blessed Hope, p. 164).
Peter Beyerhaus: “The Christian Church on earth [will face] the final, almost superhuman test of being confronted with the apocalyptical temptation by Antichrist” (Christianity Today, April 13, 1973).
Leon Morris: “The early Christians…looked for the Christ to come as Judge” (Apocalyptic, p. 84).
Dale Moody: “There is not a passage in the New Testament to support Scofield. The call to John to ‘come up hither’ has reference to mystical ecstasy, not to a pretribulation rapture” (Spirit of the Living God, p. 203).
John R. W. Stott: “He would not spare them from the suffering [Revelation 3:10]; but He would uphold them in it” (What Christ Thinks of the Church, p. 104).
G. R. Beasley-Murray: “…the woman, i.e., the Church…flees for refuge into the wilderness [Revelation 12:14]…” (The New Bible Commentary, p. 1184).
Bernard L. Ramm: “…as the Church moves to meet her Lord at the parousia world history is also moving to meet its Judge at the same parousia” (Leo Eddleman’s Last Things, p. 41).
J. Barton Payne: “…the twentieth century has indeed witnessed a progressively rising revolt against pre-tribulationism” (The Imminent Appearing of Christ, p. 38).
Robert H. Gundry: “Divine wrath does not blanket the entire seventieth week…but concentrates at the close” (The Church and the Tribulation, p. 63).
C. S. Lovett: “Frankly I favor a post-trib rapture…I no longer teach Christians that they will NOT have to go through the tribulation” (PC, January, 1974).
Walter R. Martin: “Walter Martin finally said…’Yes, I’m a post-trib’ ” (Lovett’s PC, December, 1976).
Jay Adams: “Today’s trend is…from pre- to posttribulationism” (The Time Is at Hand, p. 2).
Jim McKeever: “Nowhere do the Scriptures say that the Rapture will precede the Tribulation” (Christians Will Go Through the Tribulation, p. 55).
Arthur Katz: “I think it fair to tell you that I do not subscribe to the happy and convenient theology which says that God’s people are going to be raptured and lifted up when a time of tribulation and trial comes” (Reality, p. 8).
Billy Graham: “Perhaps the Holy Spirit is getting His Church ready for a trial and tribulation such as the world has never known” (Sam Shoemaker’s Under New Management, p. 72).
W. J. Grier: “The Scofield Bible makes a rather desperate effort…it tries to get in the ‘rapture’ of the saints before the appearing of Antichrist” (The Momentous Event, p. 58).
Pat Robertson: “Jesus Christ is going to come back to earth again to deliver Israel and at the same time to rapture His Church; it’s going to be one moment, but it’s going to be a glorious time” (”700 Club” telecast, May 14, 1975).
Ben Kinchlow: “Any wrath [during the Tribulation] that comes upon us - any difficulty - will not be induced by God, but it’ll be like the people are saying, ‘The cause of our problems are those Christians in our midst; we need to get rid of them’ ” (”700 Club” telecast, August 28, 1979).
Daniel P. Fuller: “It is thus concluded that Dispensationalism fails to pass the test of an adequate system of Biblical Interpretation” (The Hermeneutics of Dispensationalism, p. 369).
Corrie ten Boom: “The Bible prophesies that the time will come when we cannot buy or sell, unless we bear the sign of the Antichrist…” (Tramp for the Lord, p. 187).
(saw the above on the web - Brian)
I think people who think the rapture is nigh are hilarious. Just step back, and think “well, for the last 2,000 years, people have been expecting the rapture, but for 2,000 years, they’ve all been wrong. BUT I’M RIGHT, I KNOW IT.” If anyone tells me to repent because Jesus is coming back soon, I’ll tell them to tell the voices in their head to keep it down so said person can think straight.
Now, adays, we facings a illumination of conscience is our lord Jesus, our savior now is calling that, please “let my sons will go back to me,all leukwarms and pagans, those who believe and trust him.”Our Lord Jesus a waits as. And call as many times.Conversion of sinners and repentance of sins today. Now it is not yet the end to repent of sins.The tribulation is near. Our Lord jesus will come. I bow Him.
Ehhh….begpardon?
Welcome to the website, 12 Jan,2010,10:30,florence! Always a pleasure to hear from someone new[smile].